I am posting my response to this comment as I had it in the previous string:

Do you really think the average Litvisher knows the difference between the Mehalchim of Vizhnitz and Chabad vis-a-vis nistar? Are you kidding?

The antipathy to Chabad and the minimal antipathy to Breslov are caused by the same thing. Looniness. Nuttiness. Fringe behavior and theology. Quit trying to excuse it away. Us Litvishers have no clue about the subtle differences between the Toirah of the Alter Rebbe and Toiras Ger. None at all. And we certainly dont base our positions regarding these movements based on that.

"I think one can sit in the yeshiva wold for weeks without a serious discussion of man's role in this world and what G-D seeks here."

This is by far the most ridiculous sentence I have read in a very long time. The average Yeshiva Talmid learns and knows the contents of Mesilas Yeshorim, Rav Dessler, Orchos Tzaddikim, Shaarei Teshuva, Alei Shor, and all the rest...

It seems to me that Chabad defenders truly live in an alternate reality.
OJoe | 04.30.07 - 7:22 pm | #

Shneur, Bravo!
OJoe - a misnaged remains a misnaged. I wonder if G-d will be trimming his sfira berdel on Lag Bomer? lol
Chozeh | 05.01.07 - 1:47 pm | #

Chozeh. The Misnagdim you believe in exist only in your mind.
OJoe | 05.01.07 - 1:55 pm | #

LOL. Does the G-d of the Misnaged exist only in his mind as well?
guravitzer | 05.01.07 - 2:09 pm | #

I have to say, it really is enlightening to spend some time here interacting with you folks.

To you, there is this entity known as a 'misnaged' who is a lower form of being, whose Judaism is inferior and whose (non) devotion to G-d is worthy of ridicule. The funny thing is that this 'Misnaged' as he is portrayed by you does not exist. This Jew who lives with no 'ideology' who ignores mussar and nistar, who opposes all things Chassidishe just because they are Chassidishe. This person does not exist anywhere but as a figment of the Chabad imagination. He plays an important role in Chabad theology it seems as the official target of Chabad bile when a Chabadsker is presented with the fact that Chabad has departed from the machaneh of Klal Yisroel. He is a useful security blanket, even if he hasnt existed for over a century.
OJoe | 05.01.07 - 3:20 pm | #

Iwould parse it differently.IMHO Lubavitch in its chassidic teachings has more kabalah up front and center than any other living chassidus including Breslov. But it is unfair to say that Ger doesn't discuss man's place in the world, and most every knowledgeable person knows some sefat emes and others in that line of thought.

Most of Orthodoxy have distanced themselves from Lubavitch for the obvious reason and from Breslov because so many of the new followers are a bit cracked.Lubavitch is very different from Breslov. The former believe one big false idea, but otherwise are sane,fine good Jews. Breslover wild men have personality and character issues.
EVANSTONJEW | 05.01.07 - 4:33 pm | #

The issue is not the Yeshiva mann's theoretical distinction betwen lets say Chabad and Belz.. Rather the clinical experiental distinction.
Belzer bachurim learn Gefes all day, yet chabad people spend serious time on Chassiduth. Lubavitcher seek to spread the maayanoth, Bobover do not. Lubavitch and Bratzlov interact with the world and seek a unified theory of Being , the Satmar and Vishnitz do not.
As far as the study of sifre Mussar go, let me say that I am a big supporter of such, but everyone knows that organized study of Mussar in the yeshivas is not taken seriously by most bachurim.Its something done at maariv time , bein gavra legavra. The thing that counts is steigen in lernen and being Mechadesh - lomdus is the key. As Dr. Lamm once wrote our world has become Pan-Halachic all that counts is Gefes, as if sifre kabbalah, Aggadaita, Mikro, mussar do not count. Chabad and Bratzlov are exceptions in our Pan-Halachic world.
The mashgiach's importance is a thing of the past , are there any well known mashgichim left who teach Mussar instead of fund raise or deal in politics or act as high class shadchanim ? Compare this to the role mashpiim play in Bratzlov and Lubavitch.
schneur | 05.01.07 - 4:42 pm | #

Besides for ignoring history OJoe in which this person definitely existed, this statement takes the cake:

"there is this entity known as a 'misnaged' who is a lower form of being"
No such thing. Every Jew is a Chelek Elokah Mimaal.
guravitzer | 05.01.07 - 9:23 pm | #

Allow me to translate. To some of the Chabadskers here, this imaginary 'misnaged' is no better than a reform Jew. Chelek Elokah Mi'maal? Sure. Ehrliche Oived Hashem? Forget it.

I am only going by the words and comments I see here on this blog. Feel free to disagree with the other Chabadskers here.
OJoe | 05.01.07 - 10:03 pm | #

Again, let us poll everyone. I say yes, they are erliche oivdei Hashem in mass.
guravitzer | 05.01.07 - 10:23 pm | #

"Most of Orthodoxy have distanced themselves from Lubavitch..."

How do you spell patently false? Is there data to back this ridiculous assertion?

"The Misnagdim you believe in exist only in your mind."

I see, said the blind man to his deaf wife...
he who walks the walk | 05.01.07 - 11:22 pm | #

"Is there data to back this ridiculous assertion?"

Yes, personal experience being alive and living in the frum world. Are you unaware of this yet?
OJoe | 05.02.07 - 7:20 pm | #

Are we really doing this?!

Being alive and living in the frum world my personal experience has been nearly the exact opposite of yours.

Now it's your subjective bias against mine.

Is that all you got?
he who walks the walk | 05.02.07 - 8:24 pm | #

Feel free to believe whatever keeps you numb my friend.
OJoe | 05.02.07 - 8:39 pm | #