The library is a scandal just waiting to happen. I am sure one day in the future when Chabad or one of its leaders (the rebbe's "grandchildren") will need money, books will be sold.
The court ruled that the libray be made available to the public, it never really was. In fact is there a serious board of directors including scholars , academics , librarians etc to oversee the operation.
Berel Levine is a scholar and nice guy , but given his budget and lack of support can he be held responsible ? Place the blame on those guys who claimed to be AGUCH.
Schneur | 05.31.07 - 2:53 pm | #

Before we jump to trust this story, you need to be aware that recently this particular website has been taking a stand on the Lazar vs Cunin debate, and as Levin was involved in the efforts in Russia this may be an attempt to harm him. I have never seen an article on such destruction written in such a personal tone.

If we are getting on the subject of destruction, we will have to speak of the subject of the flooding and destruction of the library under the care of RoCHeL.
guravitzer | 05.31.07 - 2:53 pm | #

Schneur, your first paragraph is more an indictment of your prejudice than of anyone else.
guravitzer | 05.31.07 - 2:54 pm | #

guravitzer, see my updated post. blaming Levin is out of line.
Tzemach Atlas | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 2:58 pm | #

what, who runs Shturem?
Tzemach Atlas | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 3:01 pm | #

I see that now. I am going further, for me it casts the story in doubt. I will wait and see what comes in.
guravitzer | 05.31.07 - 3:03 pm | #

Don't you get it... the article is trying to cover up for Shemtov and Aguch. Party line politics. Shturem has NEVER taken a stand especially as important as this to the public, EVER.

By the way -- i see another lawsuit in the wind... against the insurance company... money is slow, time for some Jewish lightning.
Freilich | 05.31.07 - 3:05 pm | #

Wow !!! if you wish to blame the Rachal for the lack of care of the books from 1950-1986 why not blame the then Nasi (Numero 7) of the supposed owners of the books.If you blame the Rachal as the legal custodian of the books , perhaps his court testimony was also accurate ? Why did he (Rabbi MMS) not intervene and make sure the books were kept in good condition ?
In the first edition of the NY Times reproting of the book trial Mrs. Schneerson is reported stating in court of having told her nephew or sister to take whatever books you want as they are vermin infested. If she knew , did not her husband, and even if he did not , why did't he ?
By the way efser kent ir mir zogen af prosten English vos meynt es "an indictment of my prejudice".
Schneur | 05.31.07 - 3:17 pm | #

Your prediction of the future. You try to pose in various hats: Barry's friend, academic, Rayatz but not Ramash lover, even platonic towards Judaism as a whole, and it is difficult to feel out who they real you is. In this case, you gave a glimpse of the true you.
guravitzer | 05.31.07 - 3:25 pm | #

guravitzer, you lose your cool around this story. The Rebetzin herself said the books were neglected. So the fuss now about the condition of the books is deliberate to destroy somebody. And the blame of course is with people who resurrected AGUCH specifically for the purpose of running this institution.
Tzemach Atlas | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 3:48 pm | #

Guravitzer And I thought its the ideas and thoughts etc that are important in comments not the person, after all I have no idea who you are Guravitzer and believe me your identity does not concern me.
Perhaps in the Chasidic world today people are one dimensional , but in the general world people are multi dimensional and are complex.
Schneur | 05.31.07 - 3:54 pm | #

This is simply a politically motivated attack against Berel Levine. To understand why, all you need to do is read his devastating account of how Ohr Avner dealt with AGUCH in Russia in the early to mid '90s. (A link to the pdf file to his kuntres on the subject was again recently posted on COL - a rival site)
berl, crown heights | 05.31.07 - 4:01 pm | #

Tzemach, you are wrong in this post. I have no interest in getting into the question I posed, I was simply using it for comparison ad absurdum. I am not blaming anyone for the mistreatment of the seforim then, or now. My point is, if I had written an article like that, in that tone, blaming RoCHeL, 30 years ago (or 20 years ago), it would have been a political hack job. The same applies now.
guravitzer | 05.31.07 - 4:07 pm | #

link please to the COL article. BTW will Cunin defend Levin now?
Tzemach Atlas | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 4:11 pm | #

berl
if i recall correctly, he dosent mention any names.
he merely reffers to "anshe bliya'al".
sto pratzent | 05.31.07 - 4:35 pm | #

they should not have let Berkowitz in the library with the stupid glasses. He probably saw something then.
Tzemach Atlas | Homepage | 05.31.07 - 4:40 pm | #

sto, LOL!
ער האט דאך נישט געזאגט בערל לאזאר ער נאר געזאגט א שייגעץ
faruq | 05.31.07 - 4:53 pm | #

Berkowitz was not in the book section, only the display section with some artifacts. Anybody can get in there at normal business hours.
Wow! | 05.31.07 - 5:03 pm | #

I spent some time looking for the link - no luck so far. I downloaded the pdf and read it last week (I did not keep the file). As I recall, the kuntres was actually written about 6-7 years ago. However, here are a few points:
1. He does very much mention names - all of them.
2. He is not very negative (my take) on Berel Lazar.
3. He is polite - I do not recall any anshei blial expressions.
4. His main point - Ohr Avner usorped the role of AGUCH-Russia (i.e. Aharonov, Levine, Kagan, Cunin).
5. He is disappointed that the shluchim, who saw first hand that the Rebbe wanted the AGUCH-Russia to oversee things there, folded like cheap cameras in front of Levaev.
berl, crown heights | 05.31.07 - 5:39 pm | #

The link was taken down per request of Berel Levin.
Chaim | 05.31.07 - 5:43 pm | #

What's most devastating about Berel Levine's account is that it is presented with a librarian's precision - complete with excerpts from his own diaries with dates, conversations, meeting accounts, questions to the Rebbe and his answers...

How can political hacks fight a guy like this? Simple - accuse him of 'deliberate damage to national treasures'! Hmm... where did I hear this one before?
-
berl, crown heights | 05.31.07 - 5:58 pm | #

according to those who know the damage is much greater than what Shturem is letting you know.
Wow! | 05.31.07 - 5:59 pm | #

"He is disappointed that the shluchim, who saw first hand that the Rebbe wanted the AGUCH-Russia to oversee things there, folded like cheap cameras in front of Levaev"

berl
leviev did not care very much for the politics -imported from israel- that put him at the head. he has no personal beef with aharonov. his mentor does have. like alot.

again as far as i recall (it was a little brown booklet) the hostile takeover merits a very small mention at the end. i dont remeber him naming names. he just gives a blow by blow account of what happened leading up to it. if we can get the link, aderabeh.
sto pratzent | 05.31.07 - 6:17 pm | #

berl
does he mention YB?
sto pratzent | 05.31.07 - 6:19 pm | #

According to another Chabad site, this story is smoke and very little fire. It seems there was potential for damage due to flooding caused by intentional mischief, and nothing was damaged in the end.
guravitzer | 05.31.07 - 8:13 pm | #

this is a link: http://chassidus.ru/nispachim/aguch.htm
rachel | 05.31.07 - 11:17 pm | #

Similarly, the "pashkvil" entitled "Ein Shliach L'Dvar Aveirah" on parshas Kazakhstan - brings SDBL's letter, wherein he sides with YEC (who by the way, is his shnur's brother-in-law, IIRC).

It was printed approx. 3 years ago,
and was available in CH.
Ben Eliezer | 06.01.07 - 2:51 am | #

"The court ruled that the libray be made available to the public, it never really was."

i find this not to be true in my personal experience.

2 years ago i used the library about 20 to 30 times.

it is one of the best judaica collections in the world with many unica. i hope that it was not ruined as has been reported here.
Ari Kinsberg | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 3:31 am | #

Why is it that in Lubavitch books are given such exaggerated worth, much more than people.Is the library in Russia that Lubavitch has been hacking about so important, so unique, that it pays/paid to make it a first Jewish priority(is it important at all?I think that it has very few unique, one of a kind books, actually)? Same happened when Warsaw was burning.............
Sholom | 06.01.07 - 3:40 am | #

Berel

The timing and style of the article is definitely politically motivated. Shturem actually wrote the article a week ago and only posted it yesterday.

Nevertheless the leak happened and the damage is very bad.

who is responsible for the upkeep and safety of the libery?
DD | 06.01.07 - 4:03 am | #

SHOLOM:

"Why is it that in Lubavitch books are given such exaggerated worth"

the value of the library is not at all exaggerated. i am far from lubavitch and i have no reason to make it look good. but you can't detract from the impressiveness of the collection. i can't comment on the rest of your accusation.

"Is the library in Russia that Lubavitch has been hacking about so important, so unique, that it pays/paid to make it a first Jewish priority"

i don't know much about the collection still in russia, but if it is anywhere nearly as good as the new york collection, then the answer is yes
Ari Kinsberg | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 10:12 am | #

regarding the accusation that some have made that the library is not cared for properly:

most (all?) jewish libraries have their problems, so if true about lubavitch, then it is no exception.

also, one way to judge how good a library is cared for is the number of books missing from the shelves. every library i have every used has this problem (even with rare books in closed stacks). ONLY ONCE did i have this problem at lubavitch. all my colleagues and friends (in academia) were amazed when i told them this.
Ari Kinsberg | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 10:18 am | #

Ari Kingsberg
I was asking why books, any, books, take priority over people.
The library in Russia is of less important books if I have understood correctly.The rare and expensive items made it to America
Sholom | 06.01.07 - 1:42 pm | #

Sholom, you have yet to make the case that the books are taking priority over people. You have only made the accusation, so we will respond in kind: The books are not taking priority over people.
guravitzer | 06.01.07 - 2:11 pm | #

Guravitzer
You are a Lubab apologist:It would be impossible for me to make any case against Lubavitch to you.
See for example the impossible task of just getting a Lubab to admit that the Rebbe passed on, is not alive and therefore cannot be the imaginative Nosi Hador.
Reading about the efforts made to save books while Warsaw was burning was enough for me vedai lechakimah beremizah.
Sholom | 06.01.07 - 2:18 pm | #

Just in case you don't 'remember':Lubavitch has spent millions of $ on the failed campaign to get the library in Russia back, including sending some leading rabbis and librarians to spend endless time there and waste good political good will on this silliness:ALL THIS while families in Crown Heights have nothing to eat!!!
(Happens to be that this whole library campaign backfired-The Russians could have probably been quietly paid off to let it out, why would they care about this 'library'??
The heavt handed bully tacticts and the twisted mentality that 'redeaming' these books would somehow bring on the Messianic age was what tripped this up)
Sholom | 06.01.07 - 2:24 pm | #

All I see from you is burning prejudice. Convince me otherwise. Begin by dropping the Warsaw issue, which is not the library under discussion here and proves nothing about this. When we finish the current library issue, I'll take you up on that one. I look for facts, not prejudice, other than on one issue which I stopped commenting on here.

Neither you nor I know how much money was spent on the library in Russia, to me it seems not more than some plane tickets back and forth. They were certainly stupid about how they went about doing it, which has nothing to do with the case you are failing to make. The families in CH without food are provided with food, and their ability to survive is not dependent on the library in Russia. No one asked Shimshon Stock or any other Chesed agency to give up their money destined for food to save the library in Russia. In fact, I cannot recall a single appeal for money for this cause period.
guravitzer | 06.01.07 - 2:31 pm | #

sholom:

"The library in Russia is of less important books if I have understood correctly.The rare and expensive items made it to America"

from what i understand, these were 2 completely different collections. he only started the second collection AFTER the first was confiscated. so if anything, the first collection (i.e., the one still in russia) is probably richer.

(by way of comparison, yivo's pre-war vilna collection contained many treasure that were looted/destroyed/confiscated. the contents of this collection can be perused with the card catalogue at ny yivo, but alas not the books themselves.)

"I was asking why books, any, books, take priority over people.

today i don't see books taking priority over people. i'm not sure this is true historically either. wasn't permission to bring the collection to america granted already before warsaw "was burning"?

"Lubavitch has spent millions of $ on the failed campaign to get the library in Russia back, including sending some leading rabbis and librarians to spend endless time there and waste good political good will on this silliness:ALL THIS while families in Crown Heights have nothing to eat!!!"

this can be a legitimate complaint. but it is not unique to habad alone and can be leveled at all jewish communities. who needs subsidized museums, libraries, community centers, summer camps, periodicals, etc. when jews are starving (or can't afford yeshivah tuition).

shabbat shalom
Ari Kinsberg | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 2:40 pm | #

Ari
The other Lubavitcher here will be able to give you a fuller picture,I don't have the time to do the research.
From what I remember these books were sent for storage by Rabbi Sholom Dov Ber the previous rebbes father and later were confiscated by the Communists.These books were not his prized collection, those he kept with him.The Warsaw comment was about the efforts to save the other library while Warsaw (and the Jews....)burned.
Sholom | 06.01.07 - 2:47 pm | #

sholom:

"The other Lubavitcher here"

who is the first lubavitcher?
Ari Kinsberg | Homepage | 06.01.07 - 2:57 pm | #

The details of the history of the Rebbe Rashab's library (not the original Chabad library, which had mostly burned in a fire) can be found in Rabbi Sholom Ber Levin's book on the library at his website - http://www.chabadlibrary.org/.

I am assuming, as Sholom has no response, that the issue of the current library in Russia vs people has been settled. The issue of Warsaw was not library vs people. Attempts to save both were made, both attempts failed, as I am sure you know. The conclusion of Brian Riggs is based on (among other things) his lack of interest in letters in Hebrew by the FR which would have disproven his thesis.
guravitzer | 06.01.07 - 3:11 pm | #

Look at the link provided by Guravitzer.
Mind boggling, actually!
For a year and a half while Europes Jews were burning they were preoccupied by saving the Warsaw library!Wow!
I read parts of Out Of The Inferno, by Rachel Altein documenting these efforts, but must've forgotten just how much effort was put in to this!
In a place where books are more important than people expect anything...
Sholom | 06.01.07 - 4:38 pm | #

Aside from questioning the validity of the opinions of someone who will not deign to admit defeat on an accusation he leveled, I will ask again: Why is it wrong to attempt to rescue both people and books?
guravitzer | 06.01.07 - 6:19 pm | #

When millions of Jews are in mortal danger it is not the time to spend money,effort and plotical goodwill to save books.Every effort spent on these books came on account of Jews in danger.
You won't get it.It's ok, you are not impartial.Realize this much at least:You have to take into account your biases before expressing an opinion.

Btw, I Ddo not agree with you that very little precious assets were expended on the library in Moscow.I'm not privy to the details but am quite certain that lots of money was expended on it.Political lobbying was surely used and that carries a price, any favour done by a politician uses up goodwill.
Sholom | 06.03.07 - 3:32 am | #

This weeks parsha on the possuk of 'kel noh refoh noh loh' Rashi explains that Moshe Rabeinu prayed such a short prayer lest Am Yisroel say 'his sister is sick and he is praying for so long' Which would be seen as unseemly.
'The Jews in Warsaw (and Europe) are burning and you are busy with your book collection'
Sholom | 06.03.07 - 3:36 am | #

The question is, who here is not taking their biases into account. I at least approach my biases (they are really my life, so that bias is the wrong word) with some intelligence, and attempt to defend them both to myself and to others the same.

Look at yourself: You have moved from the argument that right now the library in Russia is being worked on at the expense of other things, to being unable to prove ("I am quite certain" means "I have no clue", and political capital is not money) that any money at all is being spent on it. You then moved from the work on the library in Warsaw being at the expense of saving Jews, to the work on the library should not be done while attempting to save other Jews (Really? While your close family member Hayo Lo Sihye is severely ill and hospitalized, you wouldn't pay your bills? You wouldn't bring a book to read, you would just pester every doctor in sight?).

Please examine the fact that every position I took was done with thought, while every statement you have made has been based on the premise that Lubavitch is trash, who cares what the trash is?
guravitzer | 06.03.07 - 12:45 pm | #

Interesting how Tzemach repeats constantly that they never were able to pay the lawyer who worked on the seforim, and yet you make the claim of money spent...
guravitzer | 06.03.07 - 12:46 pm | #

Guravitzer:
I'm curious by what you mean by 'they are really my life, so that bias is the wrong word'?

I also don't understand why you are looking to 'defend'these things 'to yourself and others'. Have you no interest in the actual truth, without 'defenses' that are generally not true?

I never claimed Lubavitch is trash, btw,but I think that it's a group that is totally incapable of seeing themselves in a critical realistic light.Hence the meshichist madness, the pre-Gimmel Tammuz(oh,how I hate that euphimism, another dodge of reality) madness, how a man once well respected could say that the Rebbe, though gravely ill 'would not die, just as it is impossible that the sun should not arise on the following day'.
Sholom | 06.03.07 - 1:07 pm | #

When an American defends certain ways of life of America, is it merely a bias? For me, bias best represents academic bias.

Most groups are incapable of seeing themselves in a critical realistic light as you present it. Change more often comes from without than within. The point of a group is precisely a group of individuals with a common bias (as you would call it).

I defend what I believe is the actual truth. I don't see you doing that, you seem to attack and then change your position when the attack fails.

Communists thought us crazy for our capitalist bias, the marketplace madness, etc. The fact that you have a dislike for a group does not give you the right to make up a new claim about them each day.
guravitzer | 06.03.07 - 2:59 pm | #

Guravitzer
Where did you see me change my position?
I still maintain that to be obsessed with the library in Russia is wrong.You have nitpicked on my words,I don't know the exact ammounts of money wasted on this fruitless endeavor but I do know that the efforts have been very extensive.In my opinion political goodwill is even more expendable than money.Asking a politician for a favour comes on account of another favour he could have done,which could include saving Jewish lives.I want to explain a bit so you get my drift:There would be nothing wrong with trying to get Lubavitch property back to the righful owners (who ever they are....veda'l)Here herculean efforts have been taken with messianic undertones as if the release of this library will somehow hasten Moshiach as if the future of Judaism somehow rests in the future of this library, hence my statement that in the eyes of Lubavitch inc these books appear to much more important that REAL issues affecting peoples parnossah in Crown Heights for example, since we see very little 'shturem' about those things.
I also thing that any unbiased individual will see that the obession with the library in Warsaw in such terrible times was misguided, at the very best.....
Sholom | 06.03.07 - 3:27 pm | #

Guravitzer, I will only concern myself with your question"Why is it wrong to attempt to rescue both people and books? Although Sholom gave a very satisfactory reply, I will add. For one thing, books have value only when there are people to use them. We, the people, whom H' endowed with ability of creating books, can indeed create books, but books can't create people.But most importantly, because we are H's children,H' bikvoidoi, ubatzmoi created us, we are created "bdmus elo--m, attempting to save human lives becomes a holy duty.Attempting to save human lives under such difficult circumstances is awesome, and requires our all undivided attention, every ounce of effort and strict focus. Multitasking has no place in such an endeavor. It is humanly impossible. Your question, as phrased, is therefore, belittling and trivial.Human live alone is holy and in a league by itself. How do we know, that maybe, just maybe, if only we had asked H' to grant us only one demand,- human lives, H' would have helped us. Yitzchok ben Yitzchok.
yitzchok ben Yitzchok | 06.04.07 - 12:58 am | #

Sholom, you began by insisting millions were spent on getting the seforim from Russia, and have downgraded to favors from politicians, and you continue to show how your bias leads you to create new truths when you claim that using a favor from a politician is more costly than money. More importantly, neither you nor I have worked with politicians and have any clue how far political capital goes, nor do we know the relationship between these activists and the politicians they work with. In fact, the opposite of what you claim may be true: These politicians may only have become interested in these activists due to the issue of either Russia or antiquities, and perhaps due to this new forged connection a Jew may be helped through this politician, where without the Russian library connection such help would never have been available! Your mind will immediately tell you, "preposterous!" Why? Because your prejudice will not allow you to think this through clearly.

yitzchok, all I will say is, you have no idea what it takes to save human lives, presumably never having done so yourself. Without being an actual soldier in the invading army, or an officer involved with planning the tactics, anyone elses involvement is very limited. For example, Rabbi Weissmandel's involvement was probably the greatest of anyone - why? Because he was there, on the ground, able to move from contact to contact. Would you begrudge him stopping to eat? Or, hoyoh lo sihye, if at some point he took some time for himself? Multitasking is not only humanly possible, it is done by executives and down every single day, and is in fact expected of them. The absurdity of this turn of the discussion is a classic example of sinah mekalkeles es hashurah. The legitimate claim, if it had been true, would have been if nothing was done for the Yidden in Europe. Once the reply is that work was done, the rest is immaterial, for it will simply depend on your previous point of view established through whatever brings you to love or oppose a certain group.
guravitzer | 06.04.07 - 1:43 am | #

Guravitzer
You claim that I have a bias or 'sinah mekalkeles es hashura', I feel that I'm being objective, however, it's true that 'odom korov etsel azmo'.Therefore I may no see myself in the correct light.Could be.But there is also an Ahavo shemekaleles, be truthful enough to say that if a poster cannot be seen as objective because of sinah mekalkeles, so to, anybody with an ahavo cannot be objective.
Sholom | 06.04.07 - 3:59 am | #

I agree with your sentiment, which is why I try not to give knee jerk accusations, instead of giving an opinion with some validation.
guravitzer | 06.04.07 - 12:42 pm | #

Guravitzer, Pop svoio, a chort svoio. I read your comment with great amusement, for it reminded me of a comment made by Rabbi Eli Teitelbaum, some time ago. He wrote: "I categorically refuse to enter into a debate with a Luba. for they distort every word. Alubav. will argue that day follows night". You, Guravitzer,provide the perfect example.It is not my interest nor is it my desire to oppose anyone or any group. As the advertisement goes:If you see something say something. I am merely expressing a view, and you are twisting everything around. But I understand. You feel you are loosing ground, and accusing others of things," nisht geshtoingn un nisht gefloign" is a face saving technique.If this is your 'modus operandi' so be it. Zol aich voil bakumen. Whereas accusing anyone, what possesses you?. Where did you see it?This is certainly not my mission, is furthest from my mind, and whom, I prey, would I be accusing?.In all truthfulness, I am not even writing this comment to you, but to the participants of this blog.
yitzchok ben yitzchok | 06.04.07 - 9:43 pm | #

Guravitzer, You are correct. No one ever asked Shimshon Stock or other such fund raisers to contribute to the other causes. And do you know why? because it would have been laughable. Why, because what they were able to raise did not come even to a very tiny fraction to what the other causes were able to raise, that is why. I read in an article, in Hamodia, about how one very highly functional family's life was disrupted, and turned upside down because one of the children got hit by a kassam rocket, with that child needing extensive therapy. Both parents, young professionals, in addition the father was "Gabai" of his shul could not, especially the mother could not work.In addition to loss of income, emotional and mental stress, don't you think such family needs help, our help? Those cases, unfortunately, are many. One of those gentlemen, in CH, was approached by one of the lesser fund raisers, and that gentleman answered the fund raiser. You people make up your mind as to where you want my money to go.I can't give everywhere. See Economics 101.Rabbi Shaul Deutch, from Boro Park, had once on his Saturday night radio program, a gentleman from Israel who was raising funds for Israel needy families. He said: true the Israeli government is helping, true again, the generosity of our acheinu bnei Israel is overwhelming, but the needs of those in need of help are ever so much higher.
yitzchok ben yitzchokt | 06.05.07 - 9:28 am | #

"In all truthfulness, I am not even writing this comment to you, but to the participants of this blog."
If the point of this is to inform me that you consider me beneath you and wish to end this conversation, and never intended to have a real conversation, then I continue to wonder who is the apologist and who is interested in human and intellectual truth.

The only relevant comment I may make (your last comment is unintelligible, I am not sure what your point is) is that Rabbi Teitlebaum only, again, reveals his bias by stereotyping. That is precisely how prejudica and bias is revealed. If I say "All Misnagdim are ..." I am biased, which I truly am. But when I tell a particular tale, "So and so said XYZ to me, and I responded ABC", there's what to talk about, and there is no evidence of bias - even if that bias exists.
guravitzer | 06.05.07 - 4:43 pm | #

guravitzer,
I read these dialogues from time to time and I can’t help but wonder, why does a smart guy like you care to engage these people in a conversation? What do you hope to learn or teach?
-
berl, crown heights | 06.05.07 - 5:32 pm | #

Why does a smart guy like you care to do the same (in the present, or in the past)?
guravitzer | 06.05.07 - 8:08 pm | #

1) ?
2) tzurik sheigetz zogt me'nit
berl, crown heights | 06.05.07 - 8:35 pm | #

guravitzer,
Seriously though, I believe that I only converse with people with whom es is do min vemen geiyen tzum tish. When it becomes clear that my first impression was wrong, I drop them and do not exchange ideas further. Moreover, I would appreciate being reminded of this policy any time I seem to veer off it.
berl, crown heights | 06.05.07 - 8:41 pm | #

Men darf fort lib huben yeder Yid. Sometimes I enjoy plumbing other depths as well. And sometimes, unsuspectingly, where it appears shallow depth emerges.
guravitzer | 06.05.07 - 9:51 pm | #

If that's what you really mean - I respect it. Laider, ich hob faint a miznageid vi a shpin.
berl, crown heights | 06.06.07 - 12:25 am | #