mentalblog.com comments:
i stayed by him for shabbas a while back, he is a real baal mesirus nefesh,living in a midbar shmama without the glamor & noise ,
i hope all works well for him
I'm not questioning any of his achievements or attitude but ... describing Adelaide as a Midbar Shmama? Come on now. It's a stone's throw form Melbourne. Yes, it has challenges but Midbar? Shmomo? Go to a Chabad House in India. Choshech Ve-arofel. Those are hell holes.
Contrary to Isaac I question both his attitude and conduct. Ask an Aussie from Adelaide and you'll get an earful.
But c'mon, Australia isn't Nepal. He's not living off a generator in some third world dive.
isaac,
when was the last time you were in Adelaide?? its not a third world country like India or Thailand , try to spend some time there, much less yidishkiet then Perth or Brisbane, i dont think there is city in aus with a permanent rov which has a small unaffiliated jewish population ,
How far/long is the drive from Adelaide to Melbourne?
perhaps good riddance to him too?
the article mentioned, Chabad took him off their site because, "he is a terrible embarassment to us".
you see what i mean... good riddance baby. Dat a way to go.
Judge jury witness and all in one moment.
good riddance
engel was never a appointed shliach of chabad
he went on his own initiative, and now that they want to get rid of him he is making a big chilul hashem
adelaide is 750 kms from melbourne
quite a few shiluchim who became rabonim in shuls in australia were never appointed officaly,
Look, I know a bit about Adelaide. My friend was a previous (non Chabad) Rabbi there. Of course it is a challenge, but to claim it is a Midbar Shemomo is pure hyperbole.
I repeat my point. Try India. That's tough.
I made/make no comment on Engel.
I lived in Adelaide for 6 months and, while it is not a thriving Jewish metropolis, it is not a midbar by any means. Kosher food is readily available and Yossi Engel had a nice, well paid, position with free accomodation, a car and school fees thrown in.
While many may argue the point of whether a community paid rabbi is a shaliach or not the main advantage of being a rabbi where you receive a salary is, in my opinion, the fact that you do not have to constantly fundraise to put food on the table.
It is not surprising to me that Yossi Engel is fighting to keep his comfortable job. What is even worse than the chillul Hashem he is causing is that the Sydney, Melbourne and London Batei Din are making the situation worse by not acting decisively and ending this fiasco.
Can someone please explain the terms you are using?
Namely, "Midbar Shemomo" and "baal mesirus nefesh", "Choshech Ve-arofel"
To comment on the Australian Jewish News' article, I am quite close to this community in Australia and have been following the situation closely.
Rabbi Yossi Engel has made a pretty bad name for Australian Jewry, to be frank. It doesn't matter what Chabad say about him, the point is that he is making a big mess of a city that had (and will rebuild to have) a thriving (yes, thriving) Jewish community.
If I interpret your comments correctly, you mean to say that Adelaide is a small Jewish community that is basically "worthless". It is quite the contrary, and if you were in Adelaide to witness the events prior to the destruction by one Rabbi Yossi Engel you will see a fine community that has been in operation for more than 170 years, and will continue to be in Adelaide for the next 170 years.
It is quite a shame to witness the results that are making global headlines. We in Australia hope that, in the near future there will be a solution to put this mess behind us and move on.
I have seen all the comments on this article. i actually live here and have been a victim of this fraud. the real tragedy is that he just wont accept that he is not wanted. He has lied repeatedly and just wont give up. His is a disgravce to his people. Regrettably he says that he wants to stay here and completely screw up a small community that basically hates him. He is insane.
We are very angry Adelaide parents too. This year we found that in past years our child's private college had received four annual "Spirit of David" school reports from the Ethnic Schools Board (ESB) on our child for 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 although NO lessons had been received. They were signed by the Rabbi. The ESB sent them to be put into the child's permanent educational records. The real Hebrew teacher at the College questioned it with the Rabbi and the reports signed by the Rabbi (and his wife for girls' reports) stopped arriving each year, but the parents still knew nothing of this and the rort continued for years. We have good reason to believe that grant money was obtained using our child's name for six and a half years until the school was suspended in June 2007. All at a time that education money was desperately needed for children. Dear N.B. we remember you fondly and wonder whether two girls you know were also listed on the false roll. Many parents have moved on and would not even know. Thus there are two serious issues, regardless of whether the school existed:
1. obtaining money falsely
2. producing documents which contained totally false and fanciful information which became part of children's school records at whatever dayschool they really did attend.
This is not only alleged fraud but child exploitation of a very serious nature.
The Beth Din has no jurisdiction over criminal matters. But we Adelaide congregants demand that a Beth Din, whether in Sydney or London, make a ruling requiring him to leave our State. We have been exploited long enough. We no longer want anything to do with this man or his wife.
The initial situation where the rabbi refused to leave after his contract was terminated is sad enough. What is more tragic is this episode where a fictional school was used to get government funding.
In my time there I dealt with the rabbi on a daily basis but never heard of this school until the scandal broke. I can well understand the frustration of the three people above.
(Trust violated - please write to me at gmail-dot-com using my full name n-dot-b)
As a former classmate of Rabbi Engel for many years in Oholei Torah in New York I am shocked by these allegations. I remember him as a well meaning good person. I know that people change and I remember after he got married that he was looking for a rabbinical position in Australia. As a Bochur we was already a Rabbi for a year or two in Australia. It was a few years after he got married that he went to this Shul.
I do not know if he never adjusted well to that place or something has majorly changed with him over the years but the depictions now being stated about Yossi Engel do not match the person I spent most of my Yeshiva years with.
Although I lost touch with him I am saddened by the news.
You are right, classmate. What on earth caused this? I don't think Ohloei Torah or a year or two in Sydney Yeshivah in the 1980s prepared him for life in Australia. Sadly, Chabad is distancing themselves rather than helping him to relocate and counselling him. He is a good scholar and chazzan. He is gifted at outreach work, but the needs of the congregation who pay your salary have to come first. He says he's not accountable to anyone; obviously not the parents or the synagogue board. It's an attitude. There is no "life-time" tenure here. He needs to do a "Din v'cheshbon nefesh" as the Rebbe expected his schluchim to do, a real self-review with a senior Chabad Rabbi as his mentor and guide. Depending on the outcome of the police investigation, this would be better done in the Melbourne or Sydney community, or even back in Crown Heights where he worked in outreach before he came here. Someone will eventually be forced by the Courts or a Beth Din to intervene.
The sad reality is that you are all right, and he is all wrong. he is not for us, and has never been. regrettably he believes that he is a life tenant in our shul and refuses to with draw his claim that he has tenure. he only has about a dozen people that support him and his wacky wife, and for this he make it loook like he is the moshiach. Regardless of any investigation that may occur, the honourable thing to do is to disappear, unless he is hanging out for a big payout....he is really in lala land if he believes that he will get a red cent now.
It is true that Rabbi Engel and his wife signed the chidren's fake reports, but behind it was the synagogue committee that wanted to save on his salary - why pay yourself when the government can do it for you?
Rabbi Engel (and his wife) signed where he was told by his employer, but himself did not receive one cent more from this deal, just had his salary come in part from a different account.
No wonder the synagogue wants so desperately to get rid of the evidence.
The above comments of 8th March are lies and defamatory of AHC. For years, no-one at AHC (and not any of the parents) knew these reports existed, nor that he received tens of thousands of dollars for lessons that weren't given, to students who weren't even at the place. Evidence has been given to the police. Rabbi Engel received the money. You clearly don't know the facts so be very careful what lies you spread. These lies will backfire very badly on Engel when his time comes. His naive supporters are not doing him a service by saying rubbish.
If anyone in Chabad is being approached to give him money, don't. DON'T.
To Anonymous, March 3 above. In a letter to the Adelaide community dated 1 February 2007, Rabbi Engel wrote:
"I established that School (Spirit of David) as a personal initiative to support Jewish Education classes that I, and my wife Chani, had undertaken in our community... I affiliated that school to the Ethnic Schools Board and for a number of years have obtained various small grants, and funding." he later writes "the school has absolutely no connection or anything to do with the Adelaide Hebrew Congregation", "I am directly responsible as Principal to the Ethnic Schools Board".
So you see, you are completely delluded to believe that the AHC "told" him to do it. How ridiculous! He admits in his own letter that it had nothing to do with them. If what you say is true (which it IS NOT), then why didn't he say that in his letter? If they "told" him to do it, he would have screamed that out straight away. He is grabbing at anything he can to discredit anyone he can. And people like you help him. The AHC knew nothing of this and Engel knows it.
He is a rabbi! He is not supposed to do anything dishonest and yet you freely admit that he did it! You condone his behaviour because you think someone made him do it??
In light of what has happened in Adelaide this week with Rabbi Engel being reported on 17 charges, do you seriously believe the Police have made a mistake? There has been a 10-month investigation.
I pity you Anonymous, because you clearly are aligned with the Rabbi and are misguided. I am also in horror that you think it is ok to commit fraud if your employer tells you to do it!!
Finally, Anonymous, Engel will be going somewhere else soon. Where that is, I do not know. But if he goes where I think he's going, I doubt that you will want to go with him. So he will be gone, and you will be here with all the people you said such terrible things about. However, this is such a nice community here in Adelaide that I am sure they will forgive you and welcome you back.
We all just want to put this mess behind us and move forward.
Angry Local: yes these lies are now backfiring - the truth is coming out and all of the people who have been denigrated by Engel will slowly, but surely, be vindicated.
Sadly, I think there is more mud from Engel to be thrown at us until then.
To Anonymous
I am a parent of children who allegedly attended this "school" and received Report Cards. What kind of person are you if you think it is OK for Engel to just sign all these reports, if, as You say, he supposedly did it under instruction? If your boss told you to go jump off the Sydney Harbour Bridge, would you do it? Face facts. Engel and his wife fabricated and signed those reports and banked the money. And his latest excuse - Engel took the prayers in the morning at Massada as part of his "lessons"? My children did not even attend Massada yet their report cards were identical to those who did! How do you explain that one?
Tell the man to go back to wherever he came from, and let the rest of us get on with our lives in harmony and peace. Preferably sooner rather than later - save the Australian community the cost of a trial - he has taken enough tax payers money already.
"Astonished Local" and "Unhappy Parent":
Rabbi Engel and his wife are going to stand trial for those report-cards and hopefully this trial is going to be just. Definitely, obeying one's boss blindly is improper and unjustified (although it could be a mitigating factor).
The question is whether the real perpetrators should be left unscathed?
Anonymous 29 Aug: The "real perpetrators"? Engel and his wife ARE the real perpetrators. I find it so frustrating that people think we are all making this up. My children have signed report cards from Engel and his wife with comments about their "good progress in Hebrew". He says they attended about 50 lessons a year for 4 years! This didn't happen. He USED my children to get money from the government. And then he covered up his crime. If this was your child, you would be as angry as we all are. He points his finger at everyone else except him and his awful wife. And he (cowardly) refuses to give us an explanation. If he has done nothing wrong, then he'd be happy to explain it all to us, wouldn't he? We sit patiently here in Adelaide. Waiting patiently for our devoted police to reveal the truth. Will Chabad believe us when he is arrested? I think not. However, we know justice will be done.
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