You are WAY off on this one. How in the world can you compare someone who was so incredibly detailed in his instructions and teachings to someone who intentionally keeps his message as vague as possible?
Tony Montana | 05.27.08 - 3:20 am | #

i am not an expert but that's what Simon told me:
http://mentalblog.com/2005/02/wa...et- kotzker.html
Tzemach | Homepage | 05.27.08 - 7:30 am | #

the management system described by SJ is merely a capitalist model of doing things, i.e. decentralized thus allowing order to emerge from the bottom, leaving each unit to form its own nucleus doing things at its own discretion while still maintaining a very specific general structure.
that last sentence sounds like an oxymoron, but it's true. call it a yichud hofchi'm.

the rebbe it would seem, besides being a big talmid chochom, ohev yisroel wise man and of course an engineer , was also a superb manager who set up a system that could function relatively smoothly more than a decade after his passing.
sto pratzent | 05.27.08 - 8:21 am | #

the system combines the worst of both worlds. Just like communism it is a suffocating Stalinist cult and just like capitalism it works only for few oligarchs and few sleek salesmen, AKA shluhcim.
Tzemach | Homepage | 05.27.08 - 8:30 am | #

"Just like in communism it is a suffocating Stalinist cult and just like capitalism it works only for few oligarchs and few sleek salesmen"

the first half is definitely debatable. as for the second, two words: study economics
sto pratzent | 05.27.08 - 8:38 am | #

sto, there are always rich and poor, but the strength of economy is defined by the strength of the middle class and Lubavich like every corrupt and broken economy has rich and poor with nothing in between, so there.
Tzemach | Homepage | 05.27.08 - 8:47 am | #

"rich and poor with nothing in between"

if you want to pick up anecdotal evidence based on your personal experience, then by all means.

the source of the problem comes from the russian element in chabad. as time goes on and younger people who were raised with an american mindset, increase, the problem will be lessened considerably.

i would not use it to indict the leadership. on the contrary, it would have been much worse if so much control was concentrated in one place.
there would be little incentive to excel and post gimmel tammuz would have been purely chaotic and yes, it would all have fallen apart. there may be sporadic abuses of power today but even those abuses can only have a limited impact. and even if youre a big honcho in california or russia who would love to piss on everybody, youre mindful of the competition that is somewhat more accommodating and will thus draw the better "talent".
sto przatzent | 05.27.08 - 9:29 am | #

when all else fails blame the jews or blame the Russians, right...
Tzemach | Homepage | 05.27.08 - 9:36 am | #

sto przatzent,


Chabad today is a broken apart mechanism. The only thing that holds it together (the little that still sticks) is the money that is being given out and the once a year convention.


There is complete anarchy, because no one is listening to what the Rebbe set up in place. What's coming out and what is playing its role is pure Stalinism and Hitlerism.

As a result there is no Organization left at all . Whenever convenient people work together, use each other, all the while watching their back for the partner they know can stab them in the back if he isn't already doing so.
Phil | 05.27.08 - 10:11 am | #

phil

perhaps youre one of those folks who long for the days when you had more control. given the forum here, it's hard to know.

personaly, while humans are flawed and the system is not perfect, i think that there are adequate checks and balances in place, some natural and some enforced.

i dont know that "organization" is something that is to be desired. perhaps some would like it controlled from the top down shaped in their image. the rebbe himself in his lifetime did not operate in such a fashion. some marginal underlings who would like to think they count for something, maybe did.

the fact is that the rebbe spoke to us directly and when standing in 770 there was no hierarchy whatsoever. it was the rebbe and then everybody else.

yes, there is some anarchy and yes, there is abuse and that's a shame and ought to be rectified. however, i still believe the rebbe put a system in place that is nothing short of genius and that is probably impossible to replicate.
sto pratzent | 05.27.08 - 11:48 am | #

TA

blame canada!
sto pratzent | 05.27.08 - 12:36 pm | #

yes, there is some anarchy and yes, there is abuse and that's a shame and ought to be rectified. however, i still believe the rebbe put a system in place that is nothing short of genius and that is probably impossible to replicate.


to that I agree.


What I do have issue with is the way things are conducted not in the direction the Rebbe set for us and its more than anyone would like to agree with.
Phil | 05.27.08 - 12:44 pm | #

you people are delusional, but arguing with you is pointless it is all emotion.
Tzemach | Homepage | 05.27.08 - 12:52 pm | #

"you people are delusional, but arguing with you is pointless it is all emotion."

dittos
sto pratzent | 05.27.08 - 2:00 pm | #

the Lubavitcher Rebbe abstained from management that involved criticism

?! Please, open any volume of igros, read 10 pages, and come back and repeat that.

but the strength of economy is defined by the strength of the middle class and Lubavich like every corrupt and broken economy has rich and poor with nothing in between

TA, very sorry to say, even enlightened russians such as yourself have a commie оттенок to them. The definition of a middle class is people who will not whine, but go get work done, eat sh**, and make it - maybe - in the end. People with a vision and some street smarts, and who generally prefer action to סברלוגיה, as opposed to loser observers and "активисты" that will never find themselves in the middle class.
aaaargh | 05.27.08 - 5:40 pm | #