the comparison is not entirely accurate. In the book the two sides of the sword are Reb Dudi=open evil that kills you intentionally.
Luzi=allowing people to wither away unintentionally.

So the comparison with responsibility is metaphorical.
Tzemach | Homepage | 05.26.08 - 8:16 pm | #

I'm joining this conversation too late, but only now I became aware that mentalblog came back to life.
This comment comes as a reflection on Tzemach's lament on Jewish society, which, if I understood correctly his point, was so corrupt that it pushed individuals into hands of Communism, feminism, etc.
Just couple of examples on Tanach concept of State and Justice, and how starkly different they are from the way Tzemach sees the last century (and probably contemporary) Jewish traditional society. As an example, I think that any society can be judged by how it regulates its relationship with the alien. Status of a non-Jew. 1. If an non-Jewish slave was maimed - he is ordered free. This law is understood as a counterweight to a widespread practice through ancient Rome and probably before to maim a slave as a sign of eternal slavery.
2. If a slave is intentionally killed (sign for being killed intentionally - if he was hit by a stick and couldn't walk any longer. Commentators say that the same applies if he was hit by a fist with visible intention to kill), his master or any other who caused his death is put to death. This law applies to a non-Jewish slave, even if it is a woman or a minor! Obviously, Jewish slave is protected by law as any other regular citizen.
3. If a slave runs away from his master, according to Torah dictum he is automatically granted asylum. Again, as commentators emphasize, it applies to a non-Jewish slave who ran away from a master in a neighboring country. Moreover, being that this law is discussed along with laws of moral behavior during war, it means that the slave crossed front lines, and he is granted immunity. Also, Torah says that he is given a permission to settle in "one of your gates that he chooses." Freedom of movement - to a non-Jew, a former slave, one who escaped from an enemy territory.
4. One thing about Jewish slaves. Status of a Jewish has been mentioned many times, and it is emphatically stated number of times in Torah that Jewish slave is no other but "wage laborer" on a fixed term contract, but his body is not anyone's property. Therefore his human and civil rights, and his personal freedoms and rights have to be protected. Specifically about female slaves:
Female slave is not for work, only to be taken into the house as a concubine, with her basic rights to be observed.
5. If we talk about civil status of females, institution of marriage that protects woman's legal rights (kettubah) is quite revolutionary. And institution of divorce is outright revolutionary for those days. (To remind you of contemporaneous burning of women whose husband died...)
I don't know to say how much of it was observed in practice, but one cannot be unimpressed with how revolutionary and - excuse the word, liberal - sometimes Torah seems to be, with strong emphasis on universality of law, with equality before justice and civil rights based on the fact of being human.
Moreover, this tradition was strong enough so that the Prophets four hundred years later claimed that the impeding Destruction was due to corruption of these laws - notably, for not releasing Jewish slaves. This means that anti-slavery sentiments were strong enough to gain traction.
I am not sure these comments help to the discussion, but I hope they do, in their own plain way.
Ephraim | 05.26.08 - 9:20 pm | #

Ephraim, interesting. Give or take two thousand years and naturally nothing happened in the interim...
Tzemach | Homepage | 05.26.08 - 9:36 pm | #

Well, I guess Western civilization did evolve following these groundbreaking legal ideas, but truth to be told - only comparatively recently. Judaism was pretty stifled in Exile, I guess.
One of the biggest promises of Israel was that it brought Jews back together to try to figure out all over again how to live as a nation. I am not sure Israel is anymore good enough on this promise, albeit some insist that against all odds the most vibrant Jewish community (religious and non-religious alike, and, surprisingly, with strong mutual influence, and much of it quite challenging and positive) is in Israel, by virtue of Jews needing to face REALITY of their existence.
Ephraim | 05.26.08 - 11:48 pm | #

OMG, since I left the US, my English really deteriorated. Accept my apologies. Hope that at least it is understandable to an extent that the main idea is not lost in translation.
Ephraim | 05.26.08 - 11:51 pm | #

Jews might have been "stifled". Does it mean that they didn't evolve? Obviously they did. And it is to the last railroad stop that we react. Our markers are on the streets of Berdichev, Moscow and New York.

Jews no longer can have it both ways. They can't reject virtually all values of Tanach in the daily lives and still appeal to it in a debate.

Israel is different story.
Tzemach | Homepage | 05.26.08 - 11:57 pm | #

Tzemach, I agree.
Israel was intended to be NOT a different story. To its detriment, it became a different story.
BTW, those who returned from Babylonian Exile to build Second Temple, were no better, and it looked quite shocking in those days. Read Nechemiah, Ezra and Malachi and you will find there many pretty shocking descriptions. And yes, I am fully aware that it ended in Second Destruction.
Ephraim | 05.27.08 - 3:05 pm | #