mentalblog.com comments:
good riddance.
Yup, Chaim, I was going to say that.
chabad is not a membership club, it is a philosophy. if it were a club and i'd have to be associated with the likes of you than im out too!
I think that the less one internalizes the message of the philosophy the more one will see it as just an affiliation.
I think mattisyahu has internalized the message and thus is comfortable to broaden his horizons.
I admire anyone who would take a real honest journey. Heck, his journey is valid as long as its on the way into chabad but not if it be broader than chabad?!
It is also a unique challenge of the BT who is exposed to the Jewish experience in a very controlled and one dimensional environment.
FFB either have had a more gradual and organic and thus more integrated awareness of other streams in Jewish thought, or have developed strong philosophical arguments to counter them, or have too many stakes in the Chabad sect to consider them seriously.
BT and especially ones who are financially secure and have a comfortable place in the larger Jewish communities and most importantly are on an intellectually honest spiritual journey, are confronted with how other devoted Jews relate to their Jewishness.
As much as I admire Chabad Chassidus, I feel bad for Lubavichized Baalei Tshuva, easely impressed, easely brainwashed (sometimes into the worst, ir meshichism), yidishkeit is too beautiful, too board to be reduced to chabad lubavich.
So he decides not to be exclusively Chabad and all one can say is 'good riddence'? That certainly wasn't what was being said when he was on tv/pulling in lots of Chabad publicity.
It's not like he ran off and became a Reform 'rabbi'. Cut the guy some slack.
So "the most high-profile Lubavitcher in the world" is a Lubavitcher no more? Kinda funny, don't you think?
"So he decides not to be exclusively Chabad and all one can say is 'good riddence'? "
Uhm, I never liked him and always thought he was no more than an embarrassment, it's not like I changed my mine once he 'left the fold'. He could have done his thing without trumpeting the chabad card.
Many lubavitch BTs would probabbly also drop out and switch over to something else if they had a chance. Since many are already married, have kids in the system and are comfortable in lubavitch they stick with it, but only externally. Hence the phenomenon of 'modern lubavitch'.
The fellow went to Hadar Hatora where they taught him how to scream Yehi! Was he ever a Lubavitcher except for the PR machine that milked the brand association?
so I guess every snag BT is happy there since he has very "broad horizons?" puh-leez.
Matisyahu was/is not the "biggest Lubavitcher", please.
Lubavitch is bigger then one guy, always has been.
Not ALL lubavitchers endorsed matisyahu and enjoyed his fame. Many lubavitchers were very uncomfortable about it and many outright spoke against him.
Yitz, it wasn't just that he isnt Lubavitch anymore. It's his attitude and his lifestyle and his overall views on being frum.
Being frum is not akin to being a hippie. You can't come and go from minhag and community as you please. At some point you gotta pick a path and stick to it. I don't care if he's lubavitch or yeshivish. But you can't be so willy nilly.
He was always above everything, and I really regret every promoting him.
Finally, I just wanted to say that the "Chabad PR machine" didn't gain THAT much from Matisyahu. Chabad has been in the news consistently for 30 years. Matisyahu was just one event blip on the screen.
.... and I say good riddance because the whole Matisyahu issue has been iffy since the beginning. Much of the ultra frum world disliked him and thought he was only doing bad.
I'm tired of having to always defend the guy, especially when he continually does more and more iffy things. If he doesnt even care himself, why should I fight to defend the guy. We arent talking about John Lennon here or lehavdil, Shlomo Carlebach.
We're talking more about someone along the lines of Shmully Boteach.
PS I read somewhere a good point. Matisyahu has a very clear history of being disloyal and dropping things. This isn't a one time derech change. It's a pattern in his life. He's a phishhead, then he's a rastaman, then he's a frummie, then he's with that band (pey dalid?) then he's his own band, then he's with Jdub, then he drops them like a hot potato, then he drops the frum fans, then he's with Sony, no he drops lubavitch. The guy can't sit still or be loyal for two minutes.
Chaim,
Either your stupied or just simply vengful. Growth means change, listen, once your were in diapers should you forever be loyal to pampers?!!?
We are assuming two things: That he meant this seriously and not as a PR stunt to be more "inclusive", and that his even if he is serious, that his saying so has something to do with studying other Jewish philosophies or visiting another Yeshiva.
On the personal level, he has done neither of the above. He has not been seriously exposed to any other derech in Yiddishkeit, and he has not studied any other in depth. If he did actually change to a specific group, he does not mention which group that is. What this seems to me is the almost inevitable rising star losing himself (or herself) in the process. I know that he still spends time with every shliach in the area that he gives a concert, and still learns Chasidus. I believe he still dresses as a Lubavitcher as well, but that can be easily verified.
If we can Lubavitcher Min Hasafa Velachutz in that they boast of being chasidim but do not act as them, why can we not have a Chossid who Min Hasafa VeLachutz claims to not be a Chossid, yet acts as one...?
basavrohom, stereotyping does nothing to make your point. This applies to o.n. as well, who seems to know what is diapers and what not but will not share it with us.
There is no point in trashing him publicly either. If you wish to warn the public not to attend his concerts fine. Don't make this personal.
o.n, I don't know where you learned manners, but how about not being a putz?
I'll never stop being amazed how people can reply so quickly without actually reading a word of what they are responding to.
Based on your very intelligent and classy response I can only assume that you are in fact a moron who doesn't have the most basic ability to read.
I addressed your "point" in my comment. I never once attacked Matisyahu personally, and I don't have any vengeful wishes you melodramatic pompous horses backside.
Nice Erev Tisho Beov 'discussion'
It's not hypocritical to try, at least in these days to not denigrate fellow Jews.
Meaningful fast to all.
why is it, the moment someone in Chabad moves slightly out of the mold, "THE SYSTEM' resorts to, drop him like a hot pancake and good riddance??
While he was in -- and While Dr. Laura was in and while all the others where in, they were the best thing since sliced bread and then... all of a sudden good riddance.
Something is terribly wrong.
A little reflection (if anyone in Chabad leadership has any honesty left in them) before T"av.
Shliach, please, a little honesty. No one has dropped Matisyahu, he dropped us (if he did). At least his current prices have dropped us...
Not one Shliach brought Dr. Laura out to speak. She spoke about Chabad, and then stopped when she stopped the Jewish thing. She wasn't converted by Chabad, she was welcomed anyway, and then she left.
The only ones who were officially dropped were those who were authorized representatives, such as Boteach, and it was not done maliciously.
first i wish matisyahu all the luck in the world
let me just ask you his question (as i heard in shul on shabbos) would a white boy named matthew miiler witha pony tail make it in the regga world of music? there is no question that his style black hat beard (not neccisary lubavitch) made him a phenom.
now as far as i am concerned he can explore all other sects of judaisim i just hope he saty on the right path and goes higher in his level judaisim and gd forbid backwards.
as for his music i never thought it belonged in a chsidic house. his music was for the world . not a frum household.
"Lubavitch is bigger then one guy, always has been."
Oy, so much could be written on this sentence.
this gut (matis) is a stupid "f"
the most dangerous things about his music are:
1. it is a gateway drug, which will only lead the listener to "real" reggae ie bob marley, and one the breach is made there are no limits.. all of the sudden you can go to a mixed club concert bec. its matisyahu...
2. he became a role model for lubavitch youth because he "made it big" in the secular entertainment world, and that really corrupts the entire jewish value system... at least now no one will delude themselves any further that what he does is even slightly jewish let alone chassidic..
It was WE in Lub who allowed this travesty to happen in the first place. M should have been told right away that he would have to make a serious career change, and couldn't be a frummer Yid in good standing if he continued. Greater people have given up more for Yiddishkeit is the past. The Lub pandering to M is a sad incitement of what passes today for Lubavitch Chassidus.
I have deep respect for Matisyahu's honesty. His statment makes it clear that he does not have the Lubavitch supiriority complex. Lubavitch is great, but hey, there are other Jews out there. Yes, I remember being shouted out by the mashpiem for learning Lekutei Mahran! I was not participating in the OT "bull-session" I was just tasting chassidus. i was continuesly told that it was treif and assur. Jewish thought is much broader then Kehos, the path to G-d is not limited by the narrow path of "bitul Kepshuto".
Lubavitch today seems to be steralized of any form of Chassidus, and as is evident from the discussion here, Lubavitch, is alientaing themselvs from Klal Yisroel. It appears that Chaim's alegiance to Lubavitch is Lubavitch as a cult.
The Alter Rebbe once counseled the Shpoler Zaideh to avoid making too much of Reb Nachman and thereby avoid the necessity of attacking him. Without in anyway equating the former with the latter; I think a similar perspective works quite well with Matisyahu Miller. I hope, for his sake, he does not Shmooooly- Botealize himself.
Today is Ahavas Yisroel day.
Lets all think of how we can improve, only one notch more in the Love dept.
Ahavas Chinom for real/for a change.
To Chaim. Perhaps in contemporary times what you say is correct but thats one of the problems with contemporary Judaism. In Eastern Europe t you had people like rav Kuk who were influenced by both Chabad and ... Voloxzhin. You had Torah Im derech eretz people who were also chassidim (Aaron M many Jews who borrowed customs from different chugim. Remember Tora vedaas and Mr, mendlowitz who borrowed pieces of the puzzle from amny difft tendencies. Its only in the last 40 years that you need to belong to a "political party" and thats it. arcus, ) you had
Aussie, leave the lion of zion alone.Reggae rules!
Schneur,
That is an excellent point. I think that people would grow spiritually if they would be open to Torah from different perspectives. You never know which vort or commentary will resonate most. I think that if people also stop becoming card carring members of a certain gang/group than the Jewish world might be less intertwined with politics and the like.
The "Jewish world" is also a "gang".
http://www.thejewishweek.com/new...hp3?
artid=14335
Tzemach, you need a PR guy to get you in these type or articles....
As usual when I get involved on a thread here I'm so saddened by the outright hatred of Lubavitch. The snide remarks, the snobbery, the tasteless and worst of all, ignorant "cult" comments.
I'm so ashamed when I come here. Not for me, but for the people who are so ignorant that they could write like this.
You don't know me. You don't know my family. Worse, you don't really know Lubavitch.
Lubavitch is a big community and you can't generalize with ignorant comments like "cult" and whatever.
Matisyahu's story is a lot of more complicated then boy meets judaism, meets chabad, drops chabad.
He has a long history of doing things on his own. He has a long history getting tired of something and moving onto something else.
Some of you here just want to make this sound like an angry crazy cult obsessed mindless lubavitch drone is attacking someone who separated from the hive. That just so .... well, ignorant.
I guess some of you will never be able to separate your animosity towards Chabad from thinking practically about an issue. You'll always just assume every Lubavitcher is nuts.
For the others out there, who disagree but can still respect the Lubavitch community, I commend you for being a mentsch. You don't have to agree with Lubavitch or everything people do in Lubavtich, heck, many people that ARE Lubavitch don't like what goes on in our world. BUT at least to be a mentsch.
Shnuer,
I can appreciate what your saying, but your over generalizing the issue and therefore skipping the here and now.
You're right, people should be free to experience more then just what they grew up with, but to an extent. Do you also think they should learn about Christianity, Budah or Islam? How far should they be able to search for their best connection with g-d?
If you grew up Satmar, would you want your kids adopting a reform lifestyle?
This Matisyahu story is not about him leaving Lubavitch or one derech for another. It's just another example of a person who isn't spiritually stable and therefore his music and his influence should be left out of the FRUM RELIGIOUS world. He's great for the non frum and the goyim, but he's unstable and dangerous for the FRUM community.
Chaim, the blog reflects its visitors and attracts people of its 'culture'
What do you expect to hear at this blog, lots of praise? who do you expect to meet? the 'normal' balanced lubavitchers?
Of course its saddening to read these threads, but then again what will the readers eat off of if not the hatred, anger and animosity?
can you please name a "'normal' balanced lubavitcher"?
A little confused. The above two comments are by people who...were forced onto this blog?!Explain to me, how every chabad news site( with the exception of .info) is tripping over itself to deify Ushi Jacobson for becoming head of RCA in Canada, yet slipping in that he's (gasp) taking philosophy courses in College?! That's his decision. I doubt he cares much for your opinion. Neither does Marris. I don't know, saw him a couple of times, seems like a good chap. But what does he owe you? Is your ego so fragile, it cant's deel with a bit of rejection? wait till you get (re) married.
"Do you also think they should learn about Christianity, Budah or Islam? How far should they be able to search for their best connection with g-d? If you grew up Satmar, would you want your kids adopting a reform lifestyle?"
Translation: A Jew who leaves Lubavitch for stam Frumkeit is like a Meshumad.
Thanks for verifying what we already knew about Chabad attitudes.
and what religion is that:
mentalblog.com: Matisyahu caught on tape singing Yechi
what's your definition of a normal balanced individual? notice I didn't mention a "true, authentic lubavitcher"
What do you people expect.... The whole Yechi thing killed Chabad and is killing it.... I can totally relate to Matis in my own way... How can anyone believe the Rebbe is Moschiach?
With soooooo many Torah sources against it!!? Of course the Yechi heads will argue semantics to prove and back-up their argument.
What else is new....
I too used to identify with Chabad
learn and doven there.... To make a long story short... I have been immensly dissapointed with the behavior of Chabad rabbis in general. They fail to do their duties, they failed to help when they promised to help and at times made situations worse by taking sides in disputes. Their cold behavior didn't help either. This was a personal matter of great weight and I will not go into details.... But the bottom line is, FOR ME PERSONALLY the proof is in the pudding. Chabad failed to deliver.
The constant Rebbe worship is insane as well. Yes worship!
There is a WEALTH of Chassidic thought / books out there besides Chabad. Bobov, Breslov, ..etc... etc..
And you know what...?
IT'S all LEGIT! No less legit than Sichos or any other Chabad books.
I actually got so turned off Chabad
that I don't learnChabad books anymore or go to Chabad Shuls.
I have rarely met an open minded Lubav who wasn't some Yechi maniac. How can the Rebbe be the Messiah when Lubavitchers are fist fighting in Crown Heights about arious Rebbe related issues... If you are on track, you will know what I am speaking of.. I am not getting into detail, if you don't know. Do some research.
How can followers of the Rebbe who could have been Moschiach when he was ALIVE, who claim to be so Holy, and his followers, act in total opposite ways than the Torah, never mind the Rebbe preaches and perscribes... Hello... Ahavat Yisroel... Derech Eretz.. You are NOT allowed to strike another Jew. Yet it has happened by the Rebbes followers. All because they want to thrust their Yechi agenda forward. That is called FANATICISIM!!!!
I have NEVER heard of any other Chasidic or Litvack sect acting in such a way and proclaiming such things. The problem isn't Matisyahu... He obviously made his decision based on what he has experienced and that's HIS business. Who is any one to critisize him? Look at your selves first and do a Heshbon HaNefesh - An accounting of the soul. Are you perfect, are you a perfect Yid?
I am not a Matis fan whatsoever.
I actually don't like his music.
But have followed his carreer through the media as well as know
some of his friends.
But I can see and relate 100%
about his feelings about Chabad,
leaving Chabad, and checking out other sects of Judaism / Chasisdism. Why limit yourself?
Breslov preaches 1000% more love and Ahavat Yisroel than any Chabad book I have seen.
And Breslov is just one example.
Bottom line, stop knocking the guy and get a life of your own.
If your self worth depends on What Matis is doing in his life and you follow every one of his steps as "guidance", you need to get therapy
ASAP!!!! If people are going to stop dovening, Tefillin, Yidishkiet, etc,
because Matis quit Chabad...
Well, maybe you and your parents need some major counselling.
He is just a singer / rapper / whatever... Be your own self and stop looking to celebrities for guidance.
If Matis is more happy elsewhere so Yesher Koyach to him!
It's his life to lead. And Chabad leaders should examine their "leadership" first, if they can't seem to get it together, and there are internal fighting with the whole Yechi/ Moschiach issue.
Someone should ask why tons off Chabad you are going off the Derech in CROWN HEIGHTS!!! itself. That they need Chabad Houses for FFB youth who have gone off the path?
A Chabad house for FFB's...This is soooo absured. This is the army of Mosciach? How can anyone be
balanced with crazy Yechi shtick going around them, infighting, and poor leadership and most likely fanatical Yechi parents...?
Look at your own life and see what YOU can do to bring Moschiach
and spread Ahavat Yisroel before you go out criticizing and putting down any other Yid for his choices.
And yes, that includes me as well.
Be the best YOU can be and do the best you can do.. Hashem will take care of the rest.
Increase the PEACE!!!!
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