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Bark!

$\"Gravatar\"$ It's so Simple, It's Ridiggulous!
ReWin | 12.19.07 - 8:38 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Hey JJ! We were on the same wavelength again, at the same time. Great post as always.

Oh, and btw I emailed HER and got ACR taken off her creepy aggregator. If anyone else is on it, you can do the same. You might miss about...oh...2 hits per week.
Prole | Homepage | 12.19.07 - 9:06 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Good post, you old hippie, you! Thanks.
Berlynn | Homepage | 12.19.07 - 10:02 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Prole - I was never on that aggregator -- I didn't make the cut because of my fucking swearing all the motherfucking time. Un-fucking-acceptable to some, apparently $\"\"$
JJ | Homepage | 12.19.07 - 10:40 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Berlynn - You know, when you look at the evidence for and against the category, there's no way the ops could turn it down. There's just nothing to support it being disallowed.

I think they were *this* close to approving it, but they got terribly unnerved by the trolls and distracted by all the straw men that were being thrown up -- an anti-feminist category, yeah sure. *eyeroll* But that's all they had, straw men, red herrings etc., no real substance to the argument against having the category.

Had the ops maintained their composure and just looked at the facts, I am 99% sure they would have approved it.

Oh well, they'll know better next year, I'm sure.
JJ | Homepage | 12.19.07 - 10:48 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I don't know, JJ. They had the opportunity, and all they came up with was the gender/GLBT category, which was to include feminists. I think those guys have actually bought into the right wing authoritarian's mythology of what feminism is.
Prole | Homepage | 12.19.07 - 10:53 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Rock on, JJ $\"\"$
matttbastard | Homepage | 12.19.07 - 10:59 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ i added my two cents over at the cynic. i think the sudden and complete venom that suzie and her pals unleashed took the ops by surprise. they seemed to have deer in headlight syndrome and they buckled. after that all of the squirming and lame attempts to assuage the sane folks were in vain. shame too, because they had a decent enough idea at the outset. as far as i'm concerned they shredded the credibility of the awards and the fun is over before it has begun. giving suzie a tacit veto and the failure of spine has won them a bay and grrrlcot and it was all so easily avoided. rock on sisters.
pretty shaved ape | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 2:04 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ So well said, jj. I don't feel inclined to settle down yet, though. Teh boyz have started it up again by patting us on the heads. We can have the category next year ... if we learn to behave ourselves better and remember our place. Yeah?

That has my blood running again -- never a bad thing at my age, o' course.
skdadl | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 2:10 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Prole - They started coming up with stupid compromises only after SUZANNE and her gang of nitwits piled on. Prior to their comments, Saskboy sounded very receptive to it, almost as if it was in fact a fait accompli: \"we'll be voting on it today\".

Then they buckled, the sharks smelled blood and swarmed, the ops tried to do the impossible and \"make everyone happy\" and the rest is history $\"\"$
JJ | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 5:32 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Matt - $\"\"$ $\"\"$
JJ | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 5:35 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ PSA - Your synopsis of the situation is right on as usual, the whole thing started when the ops caved under a little pressure from the \"anti-feminist\" nitwits.

I know Saskboy was just trying to be fair to everyone, but the right way to do this would have been to look at the facts behind the requests before responding at all. Had the ops done so, it would have been patently obvious that a feminist blog category is legitimate, and all the reactionary requests for \"anti-feminist\" and other like categories were just red herrings.

As I said to SUZANNE in the comments at the CBA site, their request is equally valid only if they first turn Anti-feminism into a popular movement and rack up 40 years worth of accomplishments in its name. THEN they have a legitimate request. End of story. And that is what the ops should have said: Come back in 40 years, assholes.

Unfortunately, the strength of that comment was missed by the ops.
JJ | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 5:45 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ skdadl - Well, I'm cutting the ops some slack in that the head-patting didn't start until they buckled under the screech attack. Then it was a comedy of errors, with everything they tried it just got worse. That's what happens when you try to make everyone happy, ultimately nobody's happy.

As I said above, the best thing to do would have been to STFU until they were clear on who was making a valid request and who was putting up straw men and red herrings. They never, ever should have responded until they'd taken time to examine the validity of all the requests, after which it would have been clear who's legit and who's just fucking around. A little time would have given them the words to say so, explain their decision and tell every to deal with it.

Not that I think this is how it should be done (anything but, actually), but I can't help wondering how this would have gone had Berlynn's request been made by email instead of showing up in the comments. I bet the category would have been added without question, it was such a glaring omission. Pretty disgusting if that's the way feminists have to go to get valid requests met, it certainly shows how far we still have to do, doesn't it?

I hear ya on the running blood $\"\"$
JJ | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 6:01 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ ReWin (first comment) - Sorry I missed that! Yes, simple. And obvious. This is an unnecessary dust-up, one side has nothing to show for why a feminist blog category should NOT be included. No ideology? What's progressive and conservative? The blogs in those categories are purely ideologically-driven.
JJ | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 6:04 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I rejected an anti-feminism category before you commented JJ!

==

\"hey, I don't support conservatism, but I don't shriek and piss and clamour for it to be removed as a CBA category.\"

Yet you think a boycott, threatened by nearly everyone who I know who'd want a Feminism category, before the week was up even, is going to get your way? We already have Matt saying he won't run at all, even if we added \"Best Feminism Blog\" today!

Why would we consider adding the category today? Make the case please, or one better, find the neutral person willing to judge eligibility for the category so we don't have to waste any more time arguing about this. I was and still am reluctant to add any more categories because it adds work. I said that from the beginning!
Saskboy | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 6:05 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I have to go to fucking work now, if you guys want to continue discussing til I get back later, have at 'er.
JJ | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 6:05 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Saskboy - Oops - I haven't said where I'm at as far as a boycott, so please don't make assumptions. That's part of what got this whole shitstorm started in the first place.

I have to go, back later!
JJ | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 6:07 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \"I haven't said where I'm at as far as a boycott, so please don't make assumptions.\"

I was working off another blogger's assumption that you had.
Saskboy | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 6:22 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ We already have Matt saying he won't run at all, even if we added \"Best Feminism Blog\" today!

No, you have bastard.logic saying we won't run, in part because Big Daddy Dipper said, and I quote, \"�And �Best Feminist Blog� cannot be done, as it is unacceptable to some.�\"

(Tell me, did you sign off on his boneheaded attempt to \"teach us a lesson\"?)

Prior to that, we (as in bastard.logic) agreed to hold off on our request to have our nomination pulled after you said you would revisit the matter by Friday. After having made that concession, we saw a lot of vicious anti-feminist jockeying and Scott Tribe's unsolicited \"good advice\"; finally, NBCD said, and I again quote, \"�And �Best Feminist Blog� cannot be done, as it is unacceptable to some.�\"

So, taking all this into account, we took a vote and decided we didn't want to be involved, regardless of what happens.

You only have yourselves to blame for all this. So stop trying to blame myself and others for a situation that could easily have been avoided if you and your fellow organizers (and folks on the fringe like Scott Tribe with their well-intentioned-but-condescending attempts at \"negotiation\") weren't so fucking squicked out by the word \"feminist\"--or, more accurately, so bloody intimidated by the furious outcry of regressive anti-feminists and socons like SUZANNE and the SDA crowd (to say nothing of outright misogynists like that running character).

You fucked up, and thus are reaping the logical consequences. Cause, meet effect. That's the way the cookie crumbles.
matttbastard | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 6:43 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I've seen this \"cookie crumbles\" cliche used a lot recently. Just saying. What's with the fascination of crumbling?

\"(Tell me, did you sign off on his boneheaded attempt to \"teach us a lesson\"?)\"

I'm tempted to, but not really. I don't tell people what to say, and if I do I don't expect volunteers to listen. NBCD put most of the work into the website. I possibly would have acquiesced by now on an explicitly \"Feminist\" category had me and my team not
1) been threatened with a boycott before even an evening of discussion had taken place.
2) referred to, collectively, with racial slurs
3) had our commitment to fairness not just questioned, but I dare say disregarded as \"flip flopping\" had we changed positions.

It's not tempting to reward bullying tactics, even if they are right. You, and your co-bloggers were a good portion of why things escalated to this point. There's no telling where it would have gone, or if we'd have \"listened to Suzanne\" (which was NOT the deciding factor by the way), if the people requesting the category hadn't been so confrontational about it from just hours in. Have more confidence than that in your ability to negotiate, and you won't get peoples backs up as much.
saskboy | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 7:05 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ pretty much what mattbastard said. I held off as well, since the organizers said they were working on it, then I thought about what qualifies as a category, and \"feminist blog\" definitely fit the definition, in this context. That it was even questioned because some people who dislike feminist views are opposed was a very poor reason. It should have been based on what qualifies something for a category - not, as it happened, by random bloggers telling organizers what to do.

I didn't withdraw as a way of forcing anything. I don't get the impression most - if not all - others felt the same way, that withdrawing was our way of exerting our right not to support something we disagree with. Bastard logic made that clear by saying even adding such a category now would not make them join in the awards.

Add to that the farce wingnuts make of these awards by freeping, supporting them supports their on-going war on fairness and recognition of quality and truth. For awards to really mean anything, the criteria to nominate a blog should be much tighter - that would avoid trash blogs like SDA and Janke's joke to show up in the same category as well researched, factual blogs.

The organizers tried to do something good, but this, in my opinion failed because criteria took second place to pressure from some bloggers.

Hard to take as well is how the award organizers folded to pressure from bloggers opposed to a feminist blog, even stating that as their reason for not having a feminist category (\"unacceptable to some\") and never called that bullying, yet vicious attacks from those same people were allowed, and it was those who supported the category who were called bullies, and rude.

I said this elsewhere - feminist blogs exist because there is a distinct voice that reflects feminist perspective on the Net. That alone should have immediately opened the door to recognize the category. They have a network among each other - another sign of a category. They've been around for a long time - yet another sign. Finally, that so many bloggers are upset at the exclusion shows many of us believe there is such a category.
900 ft Jesus | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 7:08 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \"I said this elsewhere - feminist blogs exist because there is a distinct voice that reflects feminist perspective on the Net. That alone should have immediately opened the door to recognize the category. They have a network among each other - another sign of a category. They've been around for a long time - yet another sign. Finally, that so many bloggers are upset at the exclusion shows many of us believe there is such a category.\"

Now that's a fair argument, thank you for making one. Find someone (or more) not able to be nominated in a Feminist Blog category and I'm confident I can get the Operators to agree to it.
saskboy | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 7:12 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ This is why I think \"blog awards\" are silly...nothing more than ego rubbing that can go horribly wrong when one's ego doesn't get rubbed the way one likes. Or if some category that one does not agree with appears.

I see know problem with \"Best Feminist Blog\" personally.

Oh and FWIW, Norther BC Dipper's actions in this are one of the reasons I am no longer in the NDP...instead of caring about freedom and principle, they are doing all sorts of questionable things to \"teach people lessons\" and such...and caving into the wishes of a bunch of socon twits and racists doesn't endear me to anybody.
Mike | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 7:21 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Saskboy, I know you are trying to make a good thing happen with the CBAs. I also am getting the feeling that you and your cohorts, including Scott Tribe, have no idea how patronizing your tone and language has been. Not going to 'reward bullying tactics'. In a snit. Teaching a lesson. Etc.

That in itself says a lot about how much a feminist category is needed, contrary to what Runny and suzanne say about feminsm.

I think everyone was pretty polite up until the GBLT/Wimmins issues was suggested as a compromise. The fact that a compromise was even considered, when the other side demanding one was suzanne and some f'ing nutcase who thinks the Illuminati did 9-11? That was just insulting. That's when I got pissed.
Prole | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 7:24 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Saskboy: you keep using this word \"bullying\". I do not think it means what you think it does. I see someone didn't do their homework.

\"Racial slurs\". LOLZ. So we're playing bingo now, eh? Jesus wept, you are too fucking predictable.

\"\"�And �Best Feminist Blog� cannot be done, as it is unacceptable to some.�\"\"

That was the shark-jumping moment.

Now, with all due respect, stuff the lecture on how to win friends and influence people.
matttbastard | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 7:24 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ And I am going to bow out of the conversation, since my next prediction is that Saskboy will use anything I say as an excuse to shoot down the possibility of a Feminist Blog category being established.

Best of luck to everyone.

$\"\"$

PS: what Mike said.
matttbastard | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 7:28 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I followed a mini chronology and posted it last night in a comment at ACR.
I suggest that saskboy should do the same.

Its not just the UNRULY feminists that are saying this should not be laid on the heads of the feminists BTW? Completely independent of all of us, some other bloggers have followed the timeline of events, and actually decided, on their own. That this was just pure and UTTER bull.

\"Find someone (or more) not able to be nominated in a Feminist Blog category and I'm confident I can get the Operators to agree to it.\"

ACR was not eligible for the feminism category. BTW.
BUT we support our sistah's. The CBA \"operators\" complete inability to understand how insulting they have been is most disturbing too. The lumping of the Feminist and GBLT blogs was a tipping point. And then the insistence that this had MET THE REQUEST.
Teach a lesson? Indeed. If anyone cannot see how disturbingly patriarchal and chauvinistic that sounds......There is no help and no possible solution.
No one is going to beg and grovel. I think that is the expectation.

All of this is no longer relevant anyway. $\"\"$
pale | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 7:41 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \"Now that's a fair argument, thank you for making one. Find someone (or more) not able to be nominated in a Feminist Blog category and I'm confident I can get the Operators to agree to it.\"

Holy shit, Saskboy, your credibility rating is so far in the negative numbers at this point, and this attempt to rescue it is so pitifully transparent that it's not helping.

You seriously couldn't come up with ONE reason there should have been a feminist category? You are irredeemable.
Gigi | 12.20.07 - 7:47 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ ACR was not eligible for the feminism category. BTW.
BUT we support our sistah's.

Nor is bastard.logic. We are a blog run by feminists, not a feminist blog--a subtle but crucial distinction.

The CBA \"operators\" complete inability to understand how insulting they have been is most disturbing too. The lumping of the Feminist and GBLT blogs was a tipping point. And then the insistence that this had MET THE REQUEST.

Yup.

Teach a lesson? Indeed. If anyone cannot see how disturbingly patriarchal and chauvinistic that sounds......There is no help and no possible solution.
No one is going to beg and grovel. I think that is the expectation.

Preach.

All of this is no longer relevant anyway.

A-MEN!

Ok, now I'm done. Blessings, Sistah pale. Glory hallelujah.
matttbastard | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 7:48 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ For me too, the suggested 'compromise' of lumping the feminazis in with the LGBT folk was the tipping point. That the ops were clearly clueless that this was deeply insulting to both communities tore it for me. And one of the proposed titles for the compromise 'Gender Issues', well, that just cracked me up. Because you know, ONLY feminists and LGBT people have Gender Issues.
fern hill | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 7:56 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I see that revisionist history is alive and well over here now. To correct the record with the facts, yet again:

Berlynn // December 14, 2007 at 12:03 am

I have a concern. There’s no Best Feminist Blog.

Berlynn // December 17, 2007 at 2:25 pm

Thanks for the nomination, Deanna, but I withdraw my blog from this category. It is for those writing on Gender Issues and I do not do that. I try to bring a feminist analysis to uranium mining and nuclear politics.

Berlynn // December 17, 2007 at 3:33 pm

I stand by my withdrawal and will call on all feminists and pro-feminists to do likewise.

***

The truth of the matter is that more than two full days had passed from me making the original request to calling for support from others.
Berlynn | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 8:08 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Prole, Scott is not running these awards. He's a bystander attempting to do a good thing by mediating.

==

\"Saskboy: you keep using this word \"bullying\". I do not think it means what you think it does.\"

(If you don't do X, I'm going to leave and tell my friends to leave too!) That's bullying where I come from.

\"Jesus wept, you are too fucking predictable.\"

It's also not acceptable how I was raised, to use a person's skin colour in an insult. Perhaps you can \"predict\" what you create, by routinely insulting people based on their skin colour instead of their ideas or actions?

\"my next prediction is that Saskboy will use anything I say as an excuse to shoot down the possibility of a Feminist Blog category being established.\"

As much as you seem to want it to be, this isn't all about you. It's also not all about me and what I'd like, so any category is possible if the people running the CBAs besides me want it. I don't have veto power, and why would I use it? They are volunteering like me. You don't treat volunteers badly by using a veto.

==

\"You seriously couldn't come up with ONE reason there should have been a feminist category? You are irredeemable.
Gigi \"

I never said *I* couldn't. And is that the sound of you still not finding someone willing to do the WORK that adding a category entails?

==

\"The fact that a compromise was even considered, when the other side demanding one was suzanne\"

Compromise bad? Ultimatum good?
I'm growing tired of the ignorant claims that the Operators would \"side\" with Suzanne and Running over a larger contingent of organized bloggers with valid reasons for their own category, which 900ftJesus eventually provided. I think JJ also mentioned some good arguments early on.

Instead of responding with a \"shitstorm\" when our combined category was offered to all gender issues bloggers, a little bit of patience might have been a better tactic for changing our minds. The CBA Operators are not Canada's New Government with a political agenda, we're an informal group of opinionated people trying to be fair, and put on an event Canadians would be proud to look at.
saskboy | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 8:32 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ saskboy, quit while you're not ahead. the simple fact that all of the people here, shaking their heads in dismay, are being accused of being bullies is laughable. meanwhile your discussion thread is being polluted with suzie-all caps' minions and they are unchecked. where are the ops when it comes calling those pig fuckers to order? *tapping toe, checking watch* time's up, it ain't happening.

the fact is that a civil request was made. the request was acknowledged. suzie and the tweezer heads immediately started throwing ziplocks full of piss and vomit. the ops buckled to the pressure of the actual bullies. the other side questioned the situation as the ops squirmed to get out from under. rather than calling the creeps on their malice, the ops turned on the folks who were, at first, trying to remain civil.

attempts at civility were abandoned. help was not forthcoming from sanctimonious, condescending cock noggin scott tribe. raving loons still litter the thread with anti-feminist screed, still unchecked. people throw up their hands when one of the sight ops makes declarative statement, undercutting whatever efforts you were making at appeasement.

basically, you guys blew it. you took the quisling's route and buckled to suzie hate machine. now you want to point your waggling finger and blame all the nice folks for being ticked off about it. perhaps there's a better place for you to stick that waggling finger of yours. how's about you scamper on back to your failure and pull canadiancynic's nominations from the site as has been requested. in the meantime you might want to have a chat with nbcdipshit about his oft quoted statement.

the road to hell is indeed paved with good intentions. who knew the pavers were a pack of hapless cluster monkeys. jeeziz.
pretty shaved ape | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 8:33 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Saskboy, put down the shovel. Walk slowly away. That's a good boy...

Again, do your homework:

[H]yperbolic, violent exagerration...functions as a power play. Consciously or unconsciously, it�s intended to reassert privilege through a hyperbolic dismissal of the critiquer�s words.

And it�s also � perhaps primarily � a defensive reaction. Since women and people of color don�t have as much perceived right to criticize, their criticism stings more. It becomes not just criticism but fists, wars, and bombs.

Armageddon, guns held to heads, bullying.

Check your privilege.
matttbastard | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 8:40 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I guess I missed the post where they asked for someone to step up and run the category.

OH WAIT, they didn't.

Disingenuous ass hat.
Gigi | 12.20.07 - 8:57 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \"Some Qs
Submitted by JJ on December 19, 2007 - 1:09pm.

Who's the 4th operator of the CBAs? Besides Saskboy, NBCD, S. Taylor, isn't there one more? Just curious.\"

Couldn't respond where you wrote that so:
http://cdnba.wordpress.com/about/
The list isn't complete yet, as another blogger from Vancouver is on the cusp of coming on board when they've contacted a non-partisan blogger willing to Operate the site with them. Stephen Taylor, me, and the rest of the Operators are hoping for a mostly non-political awards, since political blogs are likely a minority of blogs in the country anyway. We just yell louder than most of them $\"\"$
saskboy | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 8:58 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \"I guess I missed the post where they asked for someone to step up and run the category.

OH WAIT, they didn't.\"

Sure, calling me a liar will help matters.
http://cdnba.wordpress.com/2007/...lk/#comment-269
December 17, 2007 at 2:48 pm
\"when it comes down to it, my time and effort is most likely to be the one at stake for implementing whatever the rules are. If no one else steps up for a task, I�ll have to do it.\"
and
http://cdnba.wordpress.com/about/
\"(If you�d like to help out, email saskboy @ hotmail . com and put �Blog Awards� in the subject line.)\"

I realize that saying any more to some of the bloggers here will be construed as \"digging\" because anything I say will be dismissed out of hand. I'm still talking because I believe there are reasonable people here too willing to listen, and help me turn this isolated fiasco around through some cooperation *despite* who else is involved in the dispute.
saskboy | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 9:07 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Saskboy - lumping Feminism into Gender and Sexuality Issues was a blunder. Just take a look at Montreal Simon and April Reign and it becomes monumentally clear that these two things are not the same. Not that Montreal Simon might not consider himself a feminist or that April Reign is not interested in Gender and Sexuality, but the focus of their two blogs are sufficiently different to the casual observer to see that there are two distinct categories there. I chose those two because I think they're representative, but I could just as easily point to Slap Upside the Head, Crystal Gaze, Canucktude [sic?] versus JJ here, Bread and Roses etc.

Sorry I can't name more explicitly feminist blogs, but I generally stick around the rainbow side of the blogosphere. If I were a blogger or either stripe, I too would find myself insulted to be tossed into the rather awkwardly constructed Gender/Sexuality Issues category.

And yeah, there is an issue with the Issues in that name, but it's rather small compared to the current problem. Near as I can tell there is a strong contingent of explicitly feminist Canadian blogs just as there is a strong contingent of explicitly LGBT/GLBT blogs, and neither deserves to be grouped with the other simply because some people find the idea of a feminist category unacceptable.

Speaking as an observer, I can say that it does appear to me that the volunteers running the show capitulated to SUZANNE and \"running\", and that the response of some was incredibly patronizing. I have no dog in this hunt, but that is my unvarnished reaction.

I am sorry that the good intentions of the organizers have been overshadowed in this disagreement, and that the organizers may feel unappreciated - but I would ask that you reconsider implementing a Feminist category nonetheless.
valiantmauz | 12.20.07 - 9:17 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ JJ, this is Dave from TGB. Excuse my anonymity here, but I'm away training baby sailors right now and it will be a day or two before I can get back into the blog groove.

1. Right on, Sistah!! TGB is a supporter of the modern feminist movement, including the right of a woman to choose what is appropriate for her body and the right to access medical care for every situation without being harrassed or denigrated by anybody... particularly religious groups. For that and many other principled reasons, we believe there should have been at least one feminist blog category.

In short: Suzanne can go fuck herself.

2. I thank you for the description of TGB. You've just assisted in a decision we were all working around. I don't know that we're high octane, but when I look at 40 hours of collective research go into a 3 part series which Jon Swift wants to highlight, I start to wonder if competing in a \"reader-popularity\" contest is worth anything at all.

3. I consider it a better testament to what we produce that our peers in the blogging game dislike our presence on the field with SDA. And, you're right - being there with Kate does not make it a friendly competition. I personally would like to concentrate on our own content rather than worry about who can out-freep who.

4. You can guess what I'm going to post once I get home.

Cheers
Dave
Anonymous | 12.20.07 - 9:20 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I�ve been watching this and even made the mistake of commenting, I�m a sucker for punishment sometimes. I don�t get why there is an aversion to a Feminist category, it�s not like society has progressed so far that it might be redundant, Bush is still president fer fucks sake.

Is it just me, or did this whole shitstorm start because some lady who shall not be named because she never gets enough self confirmation made a stink?

You�re all wrong, the spirit of this thing went out the window with one of suzie-q�s aborted brainshits and everybody took the bait and is spending too much time defending themselves. This is the kind of shit that would give Harper a nice little wet spot, divide & conquer.
Bruce | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 9:48 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Well, you might have put it in plain English like:
\"If someone [new] is willing to manage that category, it's a go.\"

As stated it reads as though you need one of the existing crew to step up to the plate.

Hindsight and all.
Gigi | 12.20.07 - 10:04 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Fine!

\"If someone [new and un-nominated for the category] is willing to manage that category, it's a go [in my opinion {I'll still have to see what the other Operators think too}].\"
saskboy | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 10:07 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ My little blog isn't a feminist blog either.

Bruce, I agree that SUZ got people going, but I don't think this was a waste of time, though quite unpleasant. It was bound to happen, brought out some good points on awards, freeping,categories and related problems. Better to have it out, make changes, learn, than to keep doing things the same way when the environment changes.
900 ft Jesus | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 11:33 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ 900, oh man we better all learn something after all this. I'm not a big player and this shit is driving me nuts.
Bruce | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 11:42 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Well well, haven't we been busy little bloggers $\"\"$

Saskboy - First, thanks for responding and continuing to address peoples' concerns here.

You said: \"I rejected an anti-feminism category before you commented JJ!\"
OK, I know you made a couple of comments later about it being ridiculous and vindictive (which were appreciated, BTW), but I didn't know that you'd completely dismissed the idea that early along. Well, that's cool.

This all came about for one reason only: Suzanne & her buds can't stand the sight of the word \"feminism\". Since the Best Feminist Blog category had to be requested, it was an opportunity for them to shoot it down. I guarantee you that if the BFB had been an existing category when the awards opened, they wouldn't have done fuck all.

As it is, the CBA ops were \"played\" big time by those people. They are the ones you should be angry at. They are the ones who used bullying tactics to derail an idea that would have added something constructive to the awards -- just read the discussion thread (if you can stand it $\"\"$ ).

If you read my post, I think I make pretty clear one basic reason why feminism is as deserving of a category as any other perspective. Because it's there, it's big, and its people are blogging. Surely feminism ranks higher on the scale of who deserves a Best Blog category than Law or Entertainment blogs. Not to say they aren't also valid categories, but nowhere near as profound as feminism when it comes to comparative impact on our culture.

Here's an exercise that would help people understand the 5 Ws of this: Google \"5 things feminism has done for me\" and read through the posts from last year's feminist blogswarm. (You may have even done one yourself.) That should tell you all you need to know about why BFB should be a category.
JJ | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 4:53 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Sask - \"I was working off another blogger's assumption that you had.\"

Well, a wag o' the finger to whoever that was, too. $\"\"$ The only thing I've said about the boycott was that I was reserving my decision til Friday, which was originally when this was supposed to be resolved. Since it still ain't Friday, I'm officially ambivalent.

Just wondering -- are there any other categories that have been disputed? As in, someone has let you guys know that they think the category is \"unacceptable\". Or is this honour reserved for feminism? Should people even be able to dispute categories? The ops make the decisions, why should anyone be able to just roll in and say they don't like such-and-such and demand you remove (or don't have) the category? Just something to think about.

P.S. - thanks for the link to the info about the ops.
JJ | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 6:06 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Dave - TGB is High-test, there's no other word $\"\"$ $\"\"$
JJ | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 7:05 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ On the bright side, this ridiculous and offensive pandering to a few reactionary anti-feminists has created more solidarity among well respected Canadian bloggers than any awards could have ever accomplished. Such a basic and logical category should have been included from the get go.
Beijing York | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 7:23 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ JJ, before the awards went live, I was talking categories over with Stephen and NBCDipper, and several of the other Operators. We haggled over this and that, and I wanted a discussion thread so obvious oversights could be brought up and discussed. I didn't remember that certain attention-whores like CC and Suzanne would hijack that good will effort to keep communication open. While one of them was supposedly too busy to help get the show on the road when I asked months ago, and the other completely uninterested in even being nominated, they sure like to have their opinions known, don't they?

If bigshots hadn't shot off their mouths that they could \"girlcott\" the awards if we didn't do what they said, I'm confident that there would have been a \"Best Feminist Blog\" category by this evening. Now, enough people are opposed to it because they are offended, NOT because of Suzanne, and I don't think it will happen exactly as it's been demanded by the BreadNRoses crowd. At least not this year. That's not a judgment on the validity of feminism or on the blog genre, it's just \"how the cookie crumbles\" after it's been jumped on by all sides.

I hope you'll come to forgive me, but I'm not going to bat for this trivial cause of changing a NAME on a category of a next-to-pointless blog \"Awards\". It's not a reflection of my commitment to gender equality. It's a reflection of having my name dragged through the muck, and my reasonable guess that it won't stop even if I give the loudest complainers exactly what they want.
Saskboy | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 7:33 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ BY - Nothing mobilizes people like an attack on one of their own, which is how most progressive bloggers view their hard-working, hell-raising feminist contingent $\"\"$
JJ | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 7:55 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ SB - You tried to recruit SUZANNE?? Oy $\"\"$ vey $\"\"$

\"attention-whores like CC and Suzanne would hijack that good will effort to keep communication open.\"

I know you're choked at CC, but in fairness, he is just spectating and commenting (in his own inimitable way). He wasn't the one who made the initial efforts that ended up derailing things. He didn't bring a bunch of trolls over to the CBA site and start the dispute.

Focus your anger on the one who started all this bullshit, SUZANNE. For the life of me, I can't understand why you cut her so much fucking slack. You should have torn her a new asshole the second she arrived at the site, with trolls, and tried to highjack the ops' decision making process. I would have -- hahahahaa! You don't wanna know.

Trust me, people ARE offended because of SUZANNE. They're offended that rather than take the request for a BFB on its merit, the CBA ops immediately acquiesed to her ideological hysteria. They're offended because somehow you guys decided that SUZANNE et al were more deserving of respect than those asking for a BFB category.

As for the boycott, things escalated once it became clear that the CBA ops were not only trying to wriggle out of fulfilling a valid request, but deferring to a bunch of right-wing nitwits in the process! I'm amazed you can't see how insulting that whole routine was, on how many levels. You get to take a finite number of kicks at the dog before it bites back, and that's pretty much how the boycott got started.

Rather than reacting to the boycott talk by getting defensive, that would have been a good time to start paying attention to what was being said in the first place. Go back to square one. Work something out. It wouldn't have been a matter of making a decision because someone was holding a gun to your head -- just a matter of realizing that the process had started to go sideways and trying to get it back on track.

But it would entail you guys swallowing a little pride, admitting that you made a booboo by allowing SUZANNE to temporarily derail things, telling SUZANNE to hit the friggin road and getting on with the business of organizing the awards. Starting with the business of adding categories that were overlooked.
JJ | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 8:38 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Trust me, there's enough pride on ALL sides to be swallowed. I've offered, and there aren't necessarily enough takers. We'll see tomorrow. Things may not be sorted out until I get a reply from all of the Operators which I'm hoping is by noon, but it may be later into Friday.

p.s.
Suzanne had suggested last year that she'd run a Blog Awards. I thought it fair to ask if she intended to and wanted in on co-running with other bloggers so we didn't have a bunch of duplicate awards that bloggers would have to choose between whichever was the \"most legitimate\". So sue me for extending an olive branch to hopefully stave off a fractious Canadian Blog Awards. (I know some who will rake me over the coals for admitting this. And to them, I wish them... a Merry Christmas. If they are turkeys, they can get stuffed though.)
Good night JJ.
Saskboy | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 9:16 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \"Trust me, there's enough pride on ALL sides to be swallowed.\" Can't say I disagree.

\"So sue me for extending an olive branch to hopefully stave off a fractious Canadian Blog Awards.\"

Easy dude, easy $\"\"$ I wasn't aware of that -- but now that you mention it, that could be where SUZANNE's inexplicably overblown sense of entitlement with regard to the CBA originates -- she probably feels like she's *almost* an operator because she was asked.

Another mystery solved.
JJ | Homepage | 12.20.07 - 9:39 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Saskboy - It's not a reflection of my commitment to gender equality. It's a reflection of having my name dragged through the muck, and my reasonable guess that it won't stop even if I give the loudest complainers exactly what they want.

Making the best decisiont isn�t about giving any complainers what they want, and it isn�t about swallowing pride, it�s about clarifying one�s set of rules and criteria in setting up something like the awards. This is yours and the other organizers� decision/effort/project, so you can do what you like, but you can still come to a decision either way based on something more valid than who does or doesn�t scream the loudest, or even who hurt whose feeling, who was the most out of line, etc. other people�s bad behaviour is still the motivator, if you do that.

Dragging through the mud will still happen, I agree, but there will be less basis for it if you make a more impartial decision without letting this chaos of emotions affect your choice. I think most intelligent bloggers would respect that. I�m not writing this to try to get you to add a category. I just don�t think it�s an impossible situation. Not the category thing, anyway. Freeping problems is a whole other matter.
900ft jesus | Homepage | 12.21.07 - 8:15 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I have kept my mouth shut because there have been great commentary defending the feminist category.

Why we still need to support feminism:

Go see Rusty Idols:

http://rustyidols.blogspot.com/2...-reasoning.html

GAB
Great Aunty Bertha | Homepage | 12.21.07 - 9:39 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I put in my two cents in as well on the subject. Let's see if saskboy comes through, since they're deliberating on this today.
Paladiea | Homepage | 12.21.07 - 10:04 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I will only add one thing.

This whole Canadian Blog Awards has been a \"rushed\" affair. I appreciate that someone took over the administration of them, but to expect such a thing to go from \"not happening\" to \"the rules are established\" in a couple of weeks is ludicrous.

From the days when killing submarines was one my more pleasurable hobbies, Dolphin 43 and Dolphin 56.

This isn't the Motion Picture Academy. This is a bunch of bloggers (in a limited arena, I might add) getting together to try and create a reader popularity contest. I will come right out and say it: The winner of \"Best Blog\", no matter who wins in what category, ISN'T. The only quantifiable metric is which blog managed to run a campaign strong enough to get voters to remember to go somewhere and click a radio button.

It's fun at times, but it shouldn't be taken seriously. That is particularly true when, in the rush with which this year's awards seem to have been put together, the operators, with one slight exception, seem to be political drum thumpers and one in particular is political party insider.

Given the acrimony of the debate I would be given to making a suggestion which would solve the problem, but I seriously doubt anybody would actually listen.

On that note, you'll have to read what I post later on in the day on the subject.
$\"\"$
Dave | Homepage | 12.21.07 - 1:28 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ oh dave, you're such a tease....
pretty shaved ape | Homepage | 12.21.07 - 2:39 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \"
Given the acrimony of the debate I would be given to making a suggestion which would solve the problem, but I seriously doubt anybody would actually listen. \"

An email would be welcome.

Yes some things were rushed. I'd hoped to be ready by Dec.1, but not everyone could get back to my emails as quickly as I'd have liked, and I think it was better to get the ball rolling and have the occasional blow-out than never get to the destination at all.

This is *our* first year running this, and although Stephen and I (perhaps all Operators) wished for more non-political representation on our little committee, that didn't seem to pan out. We'll do better next year, and hope people can enjoy this year's [next-to-]meaningless voting.
Saskboy | Homepage | 12.21.07 - 6:29 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \"
Given the acrimony of the debate I would be given to making a suggestion which would solve the problem, but I seriously doubt anybody would actually listen. \"

An email would be welcome. I could even admit something to you, that might make you laugh about this whole blow up.

Yes some things were rushed. I'd hoped to be ready by Dec.1, but not everyone could get back to my emails as quickly as I'd have liked, and I think it was better to get the ball rolling and have the occasional blow-out than never get to the destination at all.

This is *our* first year running this, and although Stephen and I (perhaps all Operators) wished for more non-political representation on our little committee, that didn't seem to pan out. We'll do better next year, and hope people can enjoy this year's [next-to-]meaningless voting.
Saskboy | Homepage | 12.21.07 - 6:31 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Bruce - (way, way up in the comments)

Divide and conquer, exactly what I just replied to the Rev in another post.

It all spun out pretty fast -- SUZANNE lit the match but she wasn't the only one stoking the fire.
JJ | Homepage | 12.21.07 - 6:33 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Saskboy - You're still standing! $\"\"$ $\"\"$

I just got home so I haven't had time to catch up with this yet, but I'm hoping things can be salvaged somehow.

Dave sounds very mysterious $\"\"$ Maybe he's got some ideas.
JJ | Homepage | 12.21.07 - 6:43 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ dave's post is up at the beaver and *surprise* he has a lot to say that is cogent and considered. as far as the whole tempest in a teapot, well, i've gotten stuffed as directed. i'll keep any further thoughts about the cba to myself except to say that i am still waiting for the cynic to be removed from the list of nominations. good luck to those that need it.
pretty shaved ape | Homepage | 12.21.07 - 7:30 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ PSA - Well, it seems that this was unsalvageable after all. The CBA ops won't be adding a Best Feminist category, for reasons I can only describe as \"petulant\". They won't be \"bullied\" -- missing the fact that they were bullied into dropping the idea in the first place.

What a weird little exercise this all was, and how revealing. And disappointing. I really expected more.
JJ | Homepage | 12.21.07 - 9:11 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Learning experience. Indeed. The only good thing is that the GLBT category is back.
Nothing else good to say I'm afraid.
So, I'll leave it there.
pale | Homepage | 12.21.07 - 9:22 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Hi Pale - I was really hoping it could be salvaged, go back to square one and try it again, but I guess not.

It appears the reason (nobody is talking about) that the BFB wasn't a category to begin with is that SUZANNE is a de-facto part-time op. So this was all a lot of fuss about jack shit, because they never intended to consider the category anyway.

So, I'm taking a pass on participating this time around. I have a lot of patience, but not for BULLSHIT.
JJ | Homepage | 12.21.07 - 9:52 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ JJ, don't spread BS. I expected more from you.
Suzanne is not now, and never was a \"defacto part-time Op\". I asked her months ago if she wanted the job, because she'd said she wanted to run an awards last year, and she said no. She's not even emailed me since.

==

\"for reasons I can only describe as \"petulant\". ... And disappointing. I really expected more.\"

If you expected more, what were you willing to contribute to get it? I asked in several places if Bread&Roses bloggers would offer to judge a category or more to lighten the work load enough that someone could judge the new \"Feminist\" category. No one emailed me to offer in the whole week.

I suppose some people think that changing a system from outside it is the best way, but in this case a little bit of infiltration would have worked wonders I suggest.
Saskboy | Homepage | 12.21.07 - 9:59 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I think we are in the same frame of mind. $\"\"$
pale | Homepage | 12.21.07 - 10:00 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Heres something I wish to add to the pondering pond...

The followiig quote has been changed a bit. Guess who wrote the original..

\"..The people can always be brought to the bidding of the feminist leaders. All you have to do is tell women and children that they are being attacked (by men) and denounce those who protest as 'supporters of abuse' and for exposing women and children to danger. It works the same way in any country...\"

Here are 30 similarities between feminism and 'early' Nazism.

Feminism and Nazism have both ...

1.discriminated against individuals on the basis of their genetic code.

2.promoted the view that the targeted group was inferior genetically and behaviourally.

http://www.angryharry.com/esmenb...ancetoslugs.htm

3.promoted propaganda that led to the targeted group being labeled as 'parasites'.

http://www.angryharry.com/esstev...sstevejones.htm

4.promoted propaganda that led to the targeted group being constantly ridiculed.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/ful...754C0A9659C8B63

5.promoted propaganda that led to the targeted group being laughed at even when mutilated e.g. Bobbit jokes.

6.demonised the target group by labeling them as perverts and sexual criminals.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2...3,57209,00.html

7.sought to break the target group away from their families.

http://www.fathersforlife.org/ar...ge-expose_1.htm

8.promoted the view that the targeted group was responsible for most of the major ills in society.

9.disseminated lies and disinformation about the targeted group in order to further promote their own ideology

http://www.harrysnews.com/tgMsin...information.htm
runner | 12.22.07 - 12:36 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ 10.disseminated lies and disinformation about historical matters

http://www.angryharry.com/esDidW...GoOutToWork.htm

11.used intimidation, threats and coercion to prevent their opponents from speaking out

http://www.angryharry.com/esFemi...nastythings.htm

12.promoted the lie that the privileged group consisted of innocent 'victims' of the targeted group e.g. \"women have been oppressed throughout history.\"

13.demanded special privileges in the workplace for members of the privileged group e.g. preferential job placements for women

14.discriminated against the targeted group in educational matters and in the workplace

http://www.angryharry.com/esWell...onetheGirls.htm

15.perverted the justice system so that members of the targeted group were easily discriminated against in the law e.g. in family courts.

16.arranged matters so that accusers from the privileged group could be shielded by anonymity in the courtroom e.g. in sex-assault cases.

17.arranged matters so that defendants from the targeted group had to 'prove' their innocence e.g. in sex-assault and domestic violence cases.

18.arranged matters so that members of the privileged group could capriciously define what, legally, was to be deemed 'a crime', e.g. where nowadays the 'feelings' of women rather than the behaviours of men are the determinants of what constitutes 'a crime'

http://www.harrysnews.com/tgTheR...lOfFeminism.htm

19.arranged matters so that members of the privileged group could capriciously define how the law was to view certain matters e.g. a fetus inside a woman can now be deemed by her - at her whim - to be a worthless piece of tissue or a prospective baby - with all the ramifications of this - regardless of how the father might feel about it all

http://www.angryharry.com/esRant...ainsttheCSA.htm

20.arranged matters so that the law punished members of the targeted group more severely than members of the privileged group for the very same crime e.g. in domestic violence and murder cases.
runner | 12.22.07 - 12:37 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ 21.arranged matters so that members of the targeted group were made responsible for the choices and behaviours of members of the privileged group e.g. in paternity fraud cases where duped fathers still have to pay child support.

22.arranged matters so that members of the privileged group who harmed, or even murdered, members of the targeted group were shown undue leniency - and were often actually applauded for their actions

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_ne...ews/1651234.stm

http://www.angryharry.com/meLoos...eLooseWomen.htm

23.arranged matters so that the law punished members of the targeted group severely for even trivial offences - e.g. domestic violence, sexual harassment.

24.arranged matters so that members of the privileged group earned a right to the property of members of the targeted group for no other reason than that they were members of the privileged group e.g. alimony, child custody.

25.arranged matters so that certain speech or attitudes directed against the privileged group were criminalised e.g. biased 'hate speech' laws.

26.demanded subservience to the prevailing ideology and to the government.

27.effectively controlled the mainstream media and the academic institutions and arranged for them to present a dishonest and dishonourable point of view in support of their ideology.

28.consistently highlighted and exaggerated the achievements and the suffering of the privileged group while downplaying the achievements and the suffering of the targeted group

http://www.harrysnews.com/tgHuma...renotforMen.htm

29.ran government-funded educational courses in universities (e.g. Women's Studies, Title IX) and in schools to promote the privileged group at the expense of the targeted group.

30.persisted in a long term campaign of hatred toward the targeted group, e.g. \"Women need men like a fish needs a bicycle.\" \"Men think about sex every 15 seconds.\"

http://www.angryharry.com/esPerm...rualTension.htm

Parallels are also seen with the following quote. Guess who authored it?...

\"...The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation...\"
runner | 12.22.07 - 12:38 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I see that we were supposed to decipher \"if you take one of the other categories someone will take this one\" from:

\"If someone [new and un-nominated for the category] is willing to manage that category, it's a go [in my opinion {I'll still have to see what the other Operators think too}].\"

If that was even a likely possibility at that point. It seems insincere to pretend that after the \"maybe next year, FU bitchez\" stance, anyone would have stepped up anyway.

And on a hunch, good luck with that \"maybe next year\" thing.

I'm pretty sure that there won't be a repeat of this next year, and not for the reasons you'd like.
Gigi | 12.22.07 - 12:50 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Oh keerist, runny.

I think you forgot something:

Nazis don't want to date you, have sex with you, or live with you either.

Because isn't that what it boils down to? Feminist bitches made it possible for your wife to leave your sorry ass and not be financially dependent on you - money being the only thing that would keep any sane woman within a 20 foot radius of you.

I also bet Nazis wouldn't want to listen to your incesstant whining either.

Move on, take some ownership for whatever happened in your relationship that caused her to leave, 'cause christ, it sure looks to the world at large reading your posts like there was a pretty damned good reason.

As for your post - tl;dr
Gigi | 12.22.07 - 12:56 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I'm sorry, that was harsh.

I probably could have worded that nicer.

I'm sure you went through something very traumatic, but dude, you really don't come off as having any sense of what it takes to make things work on a person-to-person basis.

Maybe your wife was squirrel bait and ran away for purely selfish reasons, or maybe you played a role in what happened.

Either way, until you let it go, you will just keep driving everyone else away.

Surely you can see that.
Gigi | 12.22.07 - 1:12 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Its hard to swallow all your misandric comments.

Cant you all see that?
runner | 12.22.07 - 1:16 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ At least we know that Godwin's Law still applies.

/thread
matttbastard | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 1:20 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ The comparisons made are actually appropriate and valid, not exaggeration at all.
runner | 12.22.07 - 1:25 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ No, really, they're batshit crazy, and the only people who are going to nod their head in agreement are also batshit crazy.

Here's the thing, most people by the time they're 13, 14, maybe even 15, have realized that the world is not full of automatons put here to entertain them. It's full of other people - fully realized human beings with their own goals, needs, and neuroses.

Sometimes they match our own, sometimes they don't - and the inconvenient part is that they change. They aren't here to entertain you, and they aren't here to make you miserable either. Sometimes those things just happen as a result of what they are doing whule living their lives.

I'm sorry if you grew up in a house where you were told \"men do this, and women do that\" and then here you are in the real world where everything is tossed upside down and asunder because some women aren't actually interested in what you were told women do.

As you have repeatedly pointed out, there are women who DO like those things.

So how about you go find one of them, and live happily ever after instead of beating your head against that brick wall of trying to make ALL women conform to your idea of what they should do.

Just because it didn't work out the time with your wife doesn't mean it won't work out with the next one - as long as you stay away from those of us who just really don't give a flying fuck about how you think women \"should be'.

We're pretty easy to spot.

Don't you think you've pissed away enough of your life trying to convert people to your way of thinking?
Gigi | 12.22.07 - 1:44 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Just because you say there batshit crazy doesnt make them batshit crazy. I think your crazy and the people in here who will node in disagreement are crazy also.

Your assuming that I'm trying to make ALL women conform to my idea of what they should do, your full of crazy assumptions, including your fecal assumptions of my personal life.

Who is trying to convert who?

You've pissed more of your life away than I have with your responses. Dont have to worry about me. Thanks anyway.

How many feminist nitwits are there, I lost count to how many misandrists swarmed the CBA in a pathetic and embarrassing attempt to strong-arm the ops.

I feel like I really shouldn't be here, like a bloody piece of meat sinking in shark infested waters. Doesn't matter what I say I'm going to be attacked anyway.

So, good luck in re-establishing SOW's image and credibility, maybe you can degrade, intimidate and threaten the rest of the public into conforming to your distortion.

Ladies.
runner | 12.22.07 - 4:08 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ hi there runner. i'm a middle aged white man and i speak only for myself when i say that you are one ignorant piece of work. you come marching in here and start listing off endless strings of false equivalencies between nazis and feminists. then you start whining like a wee little suckling that people are being mean and hating on you.

well, listen up you snot faced cretin, you have the freedom to think and believe and preach whatever spiteful nonsense you choose. and we have the same right to call you on your bilious ignorance and hateful sputtering.

and since you, \"feel like I really shouldn't be here\" hows about you take your tiny cock-swaggering act off to greener pastures. i'm sure suzie all-caps will pat you on the head and give you a biscuit. follow your own instincts and get fuckin' hopping. scoot.
pretty shaved ape | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 4:55 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Ok

Prove the endless strings of false equivalencies between nazis and feminist wrong.

Sitting around calling it shit doesnt mean its shit. Just means you cant prove it. You'll resort to your regular tactic of calling names and refering to me as some sub human or animal.

Come on pretty shaved ape man prove it, stop talking shit you jungle swinging jerk off!
Anonymous | 12.22.07 - 6:13 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Saskboy - I'm sorry $\"\"$ I read it just last night on one of the many, many, many discussions going on about this. I should've taken the time to find the link. I'll dig it up as soon as I've properly woken up (the time it takes to down my first coffee).

I shouldn't have assumed it was correct. (The problem with making assumptions $\"\"$ ) If that's the case, I apologize. Profusely.

I saw that comment you made earlier in the week about someone stepping up to judge such a category, but I thought you were kidding, or just speaking for yourself. The only indication of consensus among the ops seemed to come from NBCD who was pretty firm on his position that the ops would \"stand up to the bullies\" (those that were boycotting), and said the other operators agreed.

Again, I shouldn't have assumed that this was correct -- if I've got it wrong, I'm sorry.

If I'd known that was an offer in good faith, (a BFB category if one of those asking for it would volunteer) it would have been doable. I would have volunteered and probably so would others. Maybe a more explicit invitation to this would have been a good idea? Given all the noise surrounding this.

So, apologies aside, let's do it!!! I offer to do whatever work has to be done to administer the Best Feminist Blog category. I am ready willing and able to step up $\"\"$

Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding. I will post the link to where I read the erroneous info ASAP.
JJ | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 6:24 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \"23.arranged matters so that the law punished members of the targeted group severely for even trivial offences - e.g. domestic violence, sexual harassment.\"

if punishing a \"trivial offense\" like domestic violence is the what you consider the work of nazis, then you are a fucking idiot. i would assume that you would prosecute common assault on the street, but the inference here is that assaulting a woman in her home is insignificant, trivial. this would seem to indicate that you hold women in such little regard that acts of violence committed against them should go unpunished. so yes, your argument is shit and yes, you are a stupid fuckwit. deal.
pretty shaved ape | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 6:34 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Runner - Who the fuck are you and why are you dumping all over my comments thread?

You're accusing ME of misandry? I only wish $\"\"$ You have no idea what a Wrong Tree you are barking up here. I am a woman who lost half of everything I owned to my ex-husband, and narrowly escaped having to pay the jerk alimony. Wrap your pin-head around that, dumbass.
JJ | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 6:34 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Runner - P.S.: I didn't read through most of your post once I saw the word \"feminism\" and \"nazi\", but I couldn't help noticing this at the end:
\"Parallels are also seen with the following quote. Guess who authored it?...

\"...The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation...\"

The quote from Goebbels, or Goerring (or whatever old nazi it was) is too funny used in this context -- You DO know who plays that one to the hilt, don't you? HINT: Starts with C, ends with \"ervatives\".

Oh fuck $\"\"$ good luck with that hypothesis.
JJ | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 6:47 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Gigi - \"I'm sure you went through something very traumatic, but dude, you really don't come off as having any sense of what it takes to make things work on a person-to-person basis.\"

Very statesman/woman-like $\"\"$ not to mention *restrained* $\"\"$

Is this guy real or some kind of troll playing games? I haven't spent much time reading his posts over at CBA and other places because they seemed like a lot of gibberish. I'm too old to waste time on gibberish.
JJ | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 7:10 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ PSA - My hero! *bats eyelashes* $\"\"$ $\"\"$
JJ | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 7:14 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Runner: P.S. again

I just scanned the comments you so thoughtfully dumped here. WTF? Are you the Angry Harry dude? That's some serious tinfoil hattery in that there blog... maybe a little chat with a mental health professional might be in order? What do you think?

Unless that was a satire site of some kind?

Colour me confused.
JJ | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 7:45 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ It's actually standard MRA-trollery.
Bell Northern Research | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 7:47 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \"23. arranged matters so that the law punished members of the targeted group severely for even trivial offences - e.g. domestic violence, sexual harassment.\"

PSA,

Thats a type-o, a mistake from copy and paste, I dont find DV or SH to be trivial offences, I find them very serious for both genders. Sorry to offend anyone for that mistake.
runner | 12.22.07 - 7:48 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \"...I am a woman who lost half of everything I owned to my ex-husband, and narrowly escaped having to pay the jerk alimony. Wrap your pin-head around that, dumbass...\"

Some would call that equality, except for narrowly 'escaping' alimony.

Could be thats where your anger came from
runner | 12.22.07 - 7:53 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ The quote from Goebbels, or Goerring (or whatever old nazi it was) is too funny used in this context -- You DO know who plays that one to the hilt, don't you? HINT: Starts with C, ends with \"ervatives\".

I couldn't agree more. Just about every government plays it to the hilt, including the NDP and the Liberals. Dont make it seem as though its only the Conservatives. lol
runner | 12.22.07 - 7:59 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \"...It's actually standard MRA-trollery...\"

I'll admit, I didn't come here to eat cake and drink tea, glad I brought my puke bag.
runner | 12.22.07 - 8:02 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ well... I sense the wagons circling.

bye bye
runner | 12.22.07 - 8:05 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ good plan runner, you simpering idiot. when those with functioning neurons notice you had best scamper. you can finish dining out of your vomit bag elsewhere.
pretty shaved ape | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 8:08 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Thanks, I have enough for about 80 meals.

Dont be nice to me, use that fucking fowl mouth of yours, like you do on your blog. Let me have it you fucking cunt wannabe, come one use that fucking fuck word fucker.

Fuck off and Merry Christmas
runner | 12.22.07 - 8:30 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Runner - \"Some would call that equality, except for narrowly 'escaping' alimony.\"

Sorry hon, it's that \"wrong tree\" thing again.
The only reason I \"escaped\" paying alimony was that he was already facing some other charges on an unrelated matter which were going to trial at the same time, and had no desire to attract any more of the court's attention.

Nice try though.
JJ | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 8:53 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \"Dont be nice to me, use that fucking fowl mouth of yours, like you do on your blog. Let me have it you fucking cunt wannabe, come one use that fucking fuck word fucker.\" You have issues, pally.

ETA: Bye, runner. Nitwit.
JJ | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 8:56 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Okay, that's it. I'm done with the CBA. \"Best Activist\" blog is not what was requested, and it does not fit the temperament of what was requested.

I left requests to withdraw all the nominations I made.
Chimera | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 10:33 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Chimera - \"Best Activist\" is as much of an insult as the other suggested categories for feminism -- best \"womens' issues\" blog, (best pms blog, best feminine deodorant protection blog, blah blah blah).

To reduce feminism to activism is to completely overlook its' last 30 years of progress. I was there when feminism was mostly activist, but when a movement actually changes laws, it's become a mainstream societal influence.

I'm sad that this so obvious point is being missed. It kind of makes me wish I hadn't thrown out that \"Why Not\" poster.
JJ | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 10:54 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Damn, I wish someone had nominated me so I could ask to be de-nominated. I ended up sort of doing it myself, but that just looks lame. Worse, my self-nomination was made before I became aware of this stupid controversy.

At my former union, an \"Equal Opportunities Committee\" was formed, so no one would feel excluded. Problem was, nobody felt included either. So now it operates on a sub-committee basis. Racism is not sexism is not heterosexism is not ableism...

Now some of the boyz went ahead and made the same mistake, and then lacked the scintilla of courage required to say, \"Look, we goofed. We're sorry. Best Feminist Blog it is.\"

Lumping \"feminism\" in with GLBT issues...ain't that special? Always knew feminists were a bunch of lesbians. OK, doesn't work: let's toss them into that big \"activist\" pot and hope nobody notices they're there.

I've never seen such disgraceful slithering in my life.
Dr.Dawg | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 11:02 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Dr. Dawg - I only got halfway through my list of nominees before this blew up, you were on it (best progressive). If I'd known what was coming I would have typed a little faster $\"\"$

\"Disgraceful slithering\" -- seriously! What is going on? There have by now been more than enough different explanations as to why \"best feminist blog\" is a legitimate category -- the ops should have been able to just declare it and move on. IMO, many if not most of the dissenting bloggers would have got back on board. What's their beef?

This all reeks of a stinky, stenchy hidden agenda.
JJ | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 11:19 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Awwww. You squished the little bug before I got back.

And no one even pointed out that for HE came here, we didn't go looking for him.

Sort of like all the women in his universe, I suspect.

And JJ, more than just being a troll, I gather that he sincerely believes the nutty things he posts. I get the feeling that he thinks he's lived up to his end of some mysterious pact, and those f'ing feminist bitches changed all the rules on him and made his wife run away.

I don't know if he was this unhinged before that event (in which case it's pretty clear why she left) or not.
Gigi | 12.22.07 - 11:46 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I only got halfway through my list of nominees before this blew up, you were on it (best progressive).

Aww...*blush*

Bets for the season to you and yours. This too shall pass. I feel a blogpost coming on, though, late or not.
Dr.Dawg | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 12:13 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \"
So, apologies aside, let's do it!!! I offer to do whatever work has to be done to administer the Best Feminist Blog category. I am ready willing and able to step up \"

After more recent comments I think I have to ask if you even made this offer in good faith.
Saskboy | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 1:25 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ What recent comments?

Y'know, just a thought here but... indirect answers to direct questions is another thing that started all this. For example...

Berlynn: I have a concern...

Yes, the offer was made in good faith, but sadly, the answer you just gave me is pretty much what I expected. Also you have to realize that because of all the farting around this week, at this point a certain amount of momentum has gathered and things have gone a little sideways. It might be too late.

SB, I know you are trying to do something good with the awards. But seriously I have to wonder why it's so hard for the CBA ops to just to Do The Right Thing. Certainly more than enough reasons have been given by more than enough bloggers for doing it, beside that it's just the right thing to do.
JJ | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 2:01 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \"It might be too late.\"

You're probably right. There's already plans for a parallel awards to perfectly reflect what the Bread&Roses bloggers wanted, so I too would suggest that further tinkering is a moot point anyway. I wish them luck, and my other sincere offer to ensure they get a link to their awards from the CBAs, stands.
Saskboy | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 3:35 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Which by the way isn't a rejection of your offer to help. Please email me and I'll get back to you. I've made it a condition of new Operators that they bring a Non-Partisan (preferably apolitical) Canadian blogger on board with them, just so you know to start recruiting.

I'm not certain any longer though that I can convince everyone to tinker further with categories this year, but next year's is wide open to changes (if we're still interested in co-running things then).
Saskboy | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 3:39 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ SB - My offer was contingent upon there being a Best Feminist Blogger category $\"\"$
JJ | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 6:28 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Dammit, Saskboy, quit blaming Bread and Roses for this! I expressed my concern about the obvious absense of a Best Feminist Blog category of my own accord. And yes, after you demonstrated a complete lack of understanding about feminism, I called for support. But, as I have seen, the support has come from far beyond B&R to include bloggers I had never read. Pale and Prole and that lovely shaved ape and Dana and a host of others. That is the silver lining in this very dark cloud.

So please, again, I ask you to quit playing this blame-game already and take some personal responsibility for bending over backwards for your rightwing extremist friends!

Hey, I'll bet you could get a job with the No-longer-new Government of Canada now!
Berlynn | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 7:45 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Berlynn, I don't respond well to people who have terribly incorrect assumptions about me. Perhaps this is why you rub me the wrong way nearly all of the time despite your politics being nearly in line with mine. That you seemingly go out of your way to offend me, when we could be allies in most of your causes, is part of what NBCDipper was talking about the other day about \"tactics\". You could stand to change yours, in my opinion.

==

\"SB - My offer was contingent upon there being a Best Feminist Blogger category\".

Email me and things might change, or don't email me and whatever happens will be unrelated to you.
Saskboy | Homepage | 12.22.07 - 10:16 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ First, dear Saskboy, our politics are miles apart. That much you have clearly demonstrated. I suggest to you that I rub you the wrong way because I challenge your privilege. And you don't like that. I didn't like it either when, in my twenties, women of colour and First Nations women challenged my privilege as a white woman. They rubbed me the wrong way, too. It has been very hard work to come to terms with that and to always remember it.

My assumptions about you, Saskboy, are based on what I have witnessed. And to say that what I have witnessed leaves a lot to be desired is an understatement. That I had to request a Best Feminist Blog Award in the first place is sad, at best. That I had to take decisive action and call on others for support in order to make the Operators listen and then be repeatedly insulted is horrid. That you call yourself progressive, yet do not embrace the opportunity to give more exposure to feminist bloggers at a time when the gains that feminism has brought to women in Canada are under attack is appalling. That you appear to side with the right wing extremists who were part of that attack is reprehensible! What other conclusions am I -- or any of us -- to come to?

My tactics for speaking my truth will not likely change. I do not believe that I have been deliberately unreasonable or unkind in any way in any of this, save that knee-jerk move to Alberta comment, for which I have apologized. I have tried my utmost to be calm and reasoned and reasonable throughout this debacle. I invite anyone to point to my mishandling of the issue because I welcome the opportunity to learn. That said, you can rest assured that I will never be some kind of kiss-ass barbie doll playing nicey-nicey to get what she knows damned well she deserves. I don't do games.

(As for your friend, NBCD, it appears to me and others that he may well have some power and control issues he might benefit from examining.)

So, now, after all this, let me repeat:

I have a concern. There's no Best Feminist Blog.
Berlynn | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 1:29 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ SB - \"Berlynn, I don't respond well to people who...\" That's a fighting feminist, baby $\"\"$ You don't wanna go there. But you know that by now $\"\"$

Re: NBCDipper -- His \"tactics\" post surprised me since he's basically suggesting punishment for a time-honoured organized labour *tactic*. But anyway... I'm not an NDPer anymore. Maybe that attitude is part of the reason why.

You are very mysterious as usual, but I'll email you later when I get home.
JJ | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 5:29 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Berlynn - \"So, now, after all this, let me repeat:

I have a concern. There's no Best Feminist Blog.\"

What she said $\"\"$
JJ | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 5:30 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \"Berlynn - \"So, now, after all this, let me repeat:

I have a concern. There's no Best Feminist Blog.\"

What she said\" JJ 12.23.07 - 5:30 am

What they said.
Scotian | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 9:40 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ There's still no feminist blog because they feel you aren't contrite enough.

Face it.
Gigi | 12.23.07 - 10:42 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Its hard to swallow all your misandric comments. Cant you all see that?
runner | 12.22.07 - 1:16 am ----

Hello? And what do think that women have been FORCED to swallow all these centuries?

Much, much worse than sexist comments.

Try to develop a sense of empathy for other people - you may find that it will un-shrink your withered heart and brain.
deBeauxOs | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 11:45 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \"Its hard to swallow all your misandric comments. Cant you all see that?
runner | 12.22.07 - 1:16 am\"

So don't swallow. Do like everyone else and spit.

And the proper word is misanthropic. Get a disctionary and learn how to use it.

\"\"Berlynn - \"So, now, after all this, let me repeat:

I have a concern. There's no Best Feminist Blog.\"

What she said\" JJ 12.23.07 - 5:30 am

What they said.
Scotian | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 9:40 am |\"

Echoing the above sentiment(s). Looks like we're all makin' a list and checkin' it twice...three times...four...

I have done what I said I would do. I went back and withdrew all the nominations I had made. Scott Tribe came in behind me and re-nominated everyone, which is fine. But I won't be taking part in the voting this year.
Chimera | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 12:46 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Berlynn, there's a difference between \"games\" and picking your battles. And sometimes fighting a war on two fronts is a bad idea when it take an extra moments effort to recruit one front as an ally.
Saskboy | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 1:20 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Sask, the way I see it, you're the one who chose to make it a war in the first place. There was absolutely no need for all this bullshit.
Chimera | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 2:03 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I'm curious, is Saskboy's obtuseness and petulance demonstrated here actually convincing anyone that he is the innocent victim of it all? Anyone other than the asshat who wrote this piece of crap:
http://unambig.blogspot.com/2007...rder-their.html

I guess feminazis stole Saskboy's egostroke the way they stole runny's wife.
Gigi | 12.23.07 - 3:23 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Right. Saskboy and the CBA moderators went out of their way to serve up an award which revolves largely around blaming the evils of the world on men, and it's all his fault. I understand perfectly. Next time let's get Berlynn to run the awards. Then she can stand in front of the fan and... well you know the rest of the story.
Raphael Alexander | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 5:51 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ RA - \"an award which revolves largely around blaming the evils of the world on men\"

Is that really what you think feminism is?

That makes me very sad, and very tired. But mostly sad $\"\"$
JJ | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 6:15 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I wouldn't lump all feminists into such a facile definition, no.

Before anyone jumps into conclusions, the last thing I need is a lecture on feminism. I understand feminism in the way of the late, great June Callwood. My mother was a proponent of the sexual liberation movement.

But today's feminist? Not sure it even means anything anymore.
Raphael Alexander | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 6:30 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Holy fuck, RA! Did you really write that thing at your blog?
JJ | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 6:40 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Guilty as charged. Feel free to lambaste.
Raphael Alexander | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 7:11 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Nope, no lambasting from here. Just great sadness $\"\"$
JJ | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 7:36 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ JJ, to be fair, I think you're a thoughtful person and an intelligent writer and I don't mean to denigrate you with my post. Perhaps I do have a problem with feminists at times, but I think you'd find I'm far more interested in discussing human issues than just racial or sexual issues. Perhaps I have, as James Bow suggests, painted my post with some rather broad strokes and therefore lumped all feminists together unfairly.
Raphael Alexander | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 7:45 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ SB: Why do you get to determine what \"battles\" I can take on? When the personal is political, every \"battle\" matters. And it matters no matter what privileged white males say.

RA: So, apparently, racial and sexual issues are not human issues? Is that right?

JJ: Sad, indeed...
Berlynn | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 9:12 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ JJ, email sent, in case you see this comment before the email..
Saskboy | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 9:53 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ B.,
I don't want to determine your battles, and don't get to. I suggested you picked a bad one this time though, because through diplomacy you'd have had more success, sooner, and with fewer casualties.
Saskboy | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 9:55 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ SB,

Are you actually suggesting that *I* have not been diplomatic throughout this mess you've created? that this is somehow *my* fault? Oh, that is just *too* rich!

Let's see. I named a glaring omission then dared to challenge an insult to feminism and then called on others to support that. I have maintained my stand and not backed down, have named inconsistencies and chauvinism where I saw them, and despite repeated attempts by the Ops and their friends to knock me down, I have remained calm and standing. And now you suggest, yet again, that I should play the game by your rules. Oh, that is just too *rich*!

Casualties? You might want to speak for yourself, eh. I haven't incurred a single one. I had nothing to lose; there was no BFB category to begin with, remember?

Need some more rope?
Berlynn | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 10:28 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \"And now you suggest, yet again, that I should play the game by your rules. Oh, that is just too *rich*! \"

Whose rules exactly did you have in mind? NBCDipper bought the domain name and built the site. I organized the push to continue the awards that Robert M. started and abandoned. Both NBCD and I (and the other Operators) asked for input on categories and had a public invitation open for people to join and run the awards internally with us. In the process of discussing the addition of a Feminist Blog category, you called on a group that included foul mouthed short tempered bloggers, to boycott us rather than asking to set the rules by volunteering. And after that convincing us to add the 'properly titled category' using logic instead of just emotion and with rules that would be fair and deal with potential problems if other less noble groups than feminists made the same demands.
Saskboy | Homepage | 12.23.07 - 10:47 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Oh fuck. Another \"equalist\" asshat. I don't know what it is with right wingers and false dichotomies. Jackass.

I think the fact that both of these morons keeps essentially saying \"play nice, ladies\" pretty much proves why feminism is still relevant.

You know what, if it was a crime to withhold approval by not participating in something, and DECLARING that you intend to cease participating, then the christian right wing nutters who threaten boycotts every week because someone mentioned the word \"gay\" would be lined up in front of the firing squad.

It is perfectly within the rights of anyone to declare that \"if A then B\" where B is a non-violent act, and particularly if it involves simply not participating.

If you weren't a bunch of spoilt brats who think that everyone has to like you and that women are here to make you feel better about yourselves, you wouldn't be still arguing this bullshit stance.

You have no \"right\" to their participation - they are perfectly free to say no, singularly or all together.

You are wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

And why do you keep pretending like you are open to suggestions? It's pretty clear that these particular feminist bloggers are not participating in the categories as laid out, and you are not changing them.

It was pretty clear that there was no point in dialogue once NBCDickhead decided to punish the feminist bitches/bloggers. Now you want some sort of apology that ISN'T HAPPENING. All that IS happening is that you look worse and worse by the post.

Will you kindly take your red wagon and go the fuck home already? Whatever it is you are seeking is not going to happen.
Gigi | 12.23.07 - 11:17 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I see what the problem is.

His great Best Activist Blog category had only one nominee. ALLCAPHERSELF.

Poetic.
Gigi | 12.23.07 - 11:56 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ But Gigi, that is a good thing for the CBA ops because it gives them an opportunity to blame us for the absurdity of that category.

\"See? This is all your fault. You made this happen because you were not diplomatic (white privilege male euphemism for not being on our knees) enough.\"

Whatever.
deBeauxOs | Homepage | 12.24.07 - 5:59 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Well, maybe they should go in and nominate a bunch themselves. And then vote for them too!

Fitting optics for the farce.
Gigi | 12.24.07 - 7:29 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Berlynn: \"JJ: Sad, indeed...\" Reading such things makes me feel like a naive asshole for thinking I could engage even *moderate* conservatives in some kind of useful dialogue $\"\"$ Auuugggh, oh well.
JJ | Homepage | 12.24.07 - 7:36 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Saskboy - Yes, thankyou, message received. I'll respond when I'm wide awake enough to use language judiciously.
JJ | Homepage | 12.24.07 - 7:38 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Gigi & DeB - The activist category was hardly even worth acknowledgment.

I find it more than a little frightening that there are people around who don't even realize how far feminism has progressed. Activism is obviously (and sadly, still necessarily) *part* of feminism, but when a movement starts actually changing laws and attitudes, it's gone way beyond activism and evolved into an influential mainstream force.
JJ | Homepage | 12.24.07 - 8:24 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ when a movement starts actually changing laws and attitudes, it's gone way beyond activism and evolved into an influential mainstream force.

Hence the inevitable (but still unfortunate) push back.
matttbastard | Homepage | 12.24.07 - 8:44 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ mattt - Yes, exactly, and it happens in waves. There was a similar pushback during the early-80s, although it was far less vitriolic than it is today (pop culture references: Material Girl, Girls Just Wanna Have Fun, lots of that kind of BS).

In Canada, the Morgentaler decision probably made a huge difference in the viciousness of the next pushback.

God, this stuff makes me feel tired. As HST would say: How long, lord, how long?
JJ | Homepage | 12.24.07 - 10:01 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ RA - \"Perhaps I have, as James Bow suggests, painted my post with some rather broad strokes and therefore lumped all feminists together unfairly.\"

24 hours ago, I probably would have gone all Forgive & Forget, as is my usual wont. But your post insulted me in a way I find hard to even explain (quite an accomplishment on your part, given that I'm rarely at a loss for words).

The feminists you \"have problems with at times\" are my sisters, and while they may speak their truth louder and more insistently than I do, they are the ones who've made it possible for me to speak mine in my own way, and I love them for it. The impact of seeing them disparaged is the same as denigrating me personally.
JJ | Homepage | 12.24.07 - 1:30 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ \" JJ, to be fair, I think you're a thoughtful person and an intelligent writer and I don't mean to denigrate you with my post.\"

Well, now, sonny...that's about as patronizing as you'll ever be allowed to get on JJ's own blog and still live to tell about it.

\"Perhaps I do have a problem with feminists at times, but I think you'd find I'm far more interested in discussing human issues than just racial or sexual issues.\"

As was said to you on your own post, before you can tackle the issues of human rights, you first have to wrestle with the fact that women are human, and are absolutely deserving of those rights. That's what feminism is about, boyo! It ain't just some girl's club that excludes men, or I wouldn't be part of it.
Chimera | Homepage | 12.24.07 - 2:54 pm | #

Commenting by HaloScan

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