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Bark!

$\"Gravatar\"$ Forget the pepper spray. Fry protesters with the Taser instead.

Next time there is a mass protest in Canada, I would not be surprised if the cops use Tasers instead of batons or pepper spray.

Peaceful assembly? Forget it. Just Taser them away!

We won't need to put pepper on our plates.
MĂŠ | 11.15.07 - 3:01 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I saw the vid, it's disgusting. What's more disgusting is that there are some comments on the board that claim that the man brought his own death upon him. Heaven forbid that someone acts out in public, apparently the punishment is death.
Paladiea | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 5:03 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ That should be on the board of the Globe and Mail
Paladiea | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 5:04 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ The public and the authorities are told time and time again that tasers are safe so why not \"shoot first and ask questions later\" 'eh?

Don't look for anything at all to come out of this - there's an industry out there that needs to be fed, and a pubic that needs to be reminded to be good because unfortunate accidents happen.
stageleft | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 5:29 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Shockingly, at an international airport, no one was around who could speak Polish to figure out what was going on?

The guys was calm when no one was near him, it was only when the police advanced that he got agitated. Its pretty common police procedure during stand-off and hostage takings to stay your distance and wait for a negotiator. If they had waited a few hours, this would have been over.

Sounds like someone wanted to try their new taser.

Fuckers.
Mike | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 8:42 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ It's wrong, that's all I can say. This isn't the country we live for.

Those lying RCMP bastards, they tried to say there were no cameras in that part of the airport, they didn't count on cell phones, morons.

I'm just a little ticked.
Bruce | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 9:05 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ You know they have domestic versions of Tasers now? (((shudder)))
Bruce | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 9:07 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ MAŠ - The use of force against peaceful protesters is an extremely disturbing trend, hearkening back to the early 70's (Kent State). But the trend of police tasering individual citizens for just getting a bit out of line is horrific.
JJ | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 9:12 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Paladiea - Can you believe the idiots that are saying it was okay, police business as usual??? WTF are they thinking? Right, wait til it's someone they know. Or them.
JJ | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 9:14 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ SL - \"a pubic that needs to be reminded to be good because unfortunate accidents happen.\"
{{{shudder}}}

I hate to keep saying this, but Canada is sleepwalking... right into authoritarianism.
JJ | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 9:17 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Mike - this was such a massive fuckup, by the airport staff's part as well as the cops. An international airport and there's nobody around who can speak Polish? And none of the staff walking around thought to wonder why this guy was there for hours, especially when he began getting agitated!? He was clearly trying to get someone's attention.

Bizarre and unbelievable.
JJ | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 9:22 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Bruce - You're right to be outraged, it could be you next if you don't behave and stay in line!

The cops fucked up, they should admit it, fire the ones involved and charge them with manslaughter.

The casual use of a deadly weapon is really disgusting -- \"Uh, should I taser him?\" you can hear one of them say almost the second they arrive on the scene. Yeah, don't try to figure out what's going on, don't try to talk the guy down first, don't look for an interpreter. Etc.
JJ | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 9:27 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Bruce - I missed that other comment -- Do you mean a domestic taser as in a taser for use by the general public, you & me? Holy crap.
JJ | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 9:28 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ You & me honey, nice little world we live in huh?
Bruce | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 9:35 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I looked at vid and the first thing I thought was it could me. Any decent man has a right to get pissed off for being detained that long, especially when he thinks he's moving to a country where shit like this doesn't happen.

We should all be ashamed.
Bruce | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 9:38 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ http://www.personaltazerc2.com/
Bruce | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 9:41 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Hey, jj, check your visitors. My latest post indicates that I have distinguished guests at my place.
Dr.Dawg | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 10:03 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I have questions. How long was this man in the airport before the cops got there? When was the last time he had anything to eat or drink? When did he last have access to a bathroom? What was the temperature inside the glass? What medication was he supposed to be taking? And when was the last time he took it?

Apart from why there seemed to be no translators, all those questions are important.
Chimera | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 10:29 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ He was there for ten hours while his mother waited for him with no word, no translators, no nothing. No reason was given to him or her. He got annoyed and he died.
Bruce | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 11:06 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ My post didn't take, damn.

Chimera, read the story.
Bruce | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 11:22 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Oh it did take, my browser is playing games with me.
Bruce | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 11:23 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Bruce, I did read the story. Several different versions of it. None of them addressed the specific issues I raised.

Haloscan is playing games again. Several blogs are having problems with it.
Chimera | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 11:41 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ CBC has a pretty definitive version of the events behind this. I watched CTV and they are trying to make it something it isn't. CBC doesn't give a shit, they just report it and what I saw this morning was horrifying.
Bruce | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 12:01 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ At the moment, I'm inclined to agree with both Ron Foyle and Dale Carr. All the information is not yet in. It does -- from the video alone -- seem like it should never have been a police incident; but we cannot see everything that was happening.

I want more information before I make up my mind.
Chimera | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 12:12 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ It WAS a police incident, that's the whole point.

Are you just trying to play apologetics or what?
Bruce | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 12:18 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Not at all. But I'm also not gonna jump on the bandwagon express without having more information, either.

Yeah, it was a police incident. From what can be seen on the video, though, it should not have been. So my question is: Why was it a police incident?

What information is missing?
Chimera | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 12:33 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Bruce - thanks for the link -- huh. Interesting. Yet we can't carry guns around for self defense (not that I think that's a good idea, but it's about the same -- if this guy had been shot in the foot instead of tasered, he'd still be alive).
JJ | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 12:48 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Chimera - How can you watch that video and have questions? The fact that it was a 4 on 1 situation is all you need to know. If 4 cops can't subdue one guy, they're in the wrong business.
JJ | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 12:51 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Dr. Dawg - No distinguished visitors $\"\"$ If the website with the video shows who's linking to it, that's probably what they're checking.
JJ | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 12:59 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Bruce - what's the CTV report like? I've only seen the newsworld report, which I thought was pretty straight to the point.
JJ | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 1:01 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Chimera,no it shouldn't have been a police situation but that doesn't change the fact that it was and questioning why never changes the reality.
Bruce | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 1:05 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ CTV? As I try to maintain my composure here, I thought I was watching Fox, Mike Duffy and all, shoot me now, it's easier.
Bruce | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 1:09 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Bruce - Really!? Huh. I'll have to check it out. CBC's coverage is good, very even handed. But there's no way you could watch that video and not be outraged at our Royal Cdn Mounted Thugs. Don't these guys take Police Sciences anymore? And learn about the psychology of dealing with these situations? Or is it just a goon squad now.
JJ | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 1:27 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ This is where I don't get what Chimera is trying to defend, I know she wants to be a good person but I don't get why she insists on defending the indefencable.
Bruce | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 1:43 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Bruce - I think what she's trying to say is that she doesn't know all the details, so therefore can't make a decision.

In principle, questioning and not just accepting a story at face value, is a good way to be. You do it, I do it. But in this case, the questions she's asking aren't extenuating circumstances that would make a difference in the cops' culpability in this.

A question one might ask before knowing the whole story would be \"Did he have a weapon?\" which is the only reason I can see for using deadly force. But that was answered, no he didn't, so other questions are kind of superfluous. If anything they only make the cops and airport staff look worse.
JJ | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 2:15 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Ah, ok, so I'm wasting my time on someone who never bothered to find out why in the first place. She can find out for herself with the same internet we all have and then engage us in conversation, can't she?

Is it hard to tell I'm on a bit of a rant? Bitch, complain, carry on, yada yada yada.
Bruce | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 2:32 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Bruce - Well, not exactly. I'm assuming that Chimera has seen the same video and news coverage that we have, but in her case it's just not enough (for some reason) to make her accept the story, assign blame etc.

I'm not sure where she's going with her questions because they wouldn't change the fact that the RCMP were way out of line. ie. whether the guy was hungry, medicated or whatever still doesn't give the cops the right to kill him.
JJ | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 2:40 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I'm going to shut up now because all the pertinent questions have been asked, we're just waiting for the answers from those who tell us they have them.
Bruce | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 4:19 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Nothing wrong with questioning something like this. But some questions (not yours) seem to be headed off in a direction that -- maybe it's just me -- but I don't get it.

Is it just me or is this getting more depressing? It needs to be talked about, but I keep having to leave the computer because I'm just getting too depressed.

Fiddle dee dee, I'll think about it in the morning $\"\"$
Anonymous | 11.15.07 - 8:48 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Oh shit, that was me. First time I've ever done that!
JJ | Homepage | 11.15.07 - 8:49 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ *sigh* I wish I had all the time in the world to stay on the computer, but I don't. I had to leave to take care of some stuff. So...

I'm not defending anything or anyone. I'm asking questions. Four on one seems 'way too much. I want to know why they felt they had to do that. What was it that we did not see -- that they may have seen on an internal video screen -- that prompted the appearance of four cops when it looks to us as though one cop would have been enough.

I'm also not going to assume that it was the taser that killed him. I'd say it's also possible that he died from a broken neck. Or asphyxia. But if it was the taser that was the immediate cause of death, then why? Was his body chemistry out of whack from lack of food/water/medication?

Just this morning came a little, tiny piece of info that nobody had known before, and it may have been relevant to his state of agitation: Dziekanski was a smoker. Anybody been through withdrawal? Was it a pleasant experience? Now, try doing that in a place where you not only can't get any relief, but you don't speak the language, and nobody speaks yours. You get agitated, and the only way you have to communicate that is to throw something.

He threw a keyboard on the ground. Not at anyone. And when he had picked up a monitor, he stopped short of throwing it when someone yelled, \"No!\" He put it down quietly. Was he thinking then that someone was finally going to help him?

Did the cops see him throwing the keyboard, and pick up the monitor, but not see him put it down?

See, it's real easy for all of us to sit here and pass judgement like we've got all the answers and we don't need any more information. But I'm not comfortable with that.

I don't only want to know what happened. I also want to know why.
Chimera | Homepage | 11.16.07 - 11:59 am | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ I personally spoke out against it from my side of the fence. There's no defense against what these officers did.
Raphael Alexander | Homepage | 11.16.07 - 5:15 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ Chimera - Sorry, I just couldn't see where your line of questioning was going. Regardless of RD's state of health, what I saw on that video was unacceptable. 30 seconds til they zap the guy and jump on him is unacceptable. No attempt to engage, no attempt to find a translator, they just walked in and stomped the guy. The message is clear: \"Don't fuck around at the airport -- in the post 9/11 world, we no longer take time to assess the situation, we just attack.\" Not acceptable. If anyone gets slapped around by the cops, I want to know why. It's their job to keep the peace, not beat the crap out of people.

I wondered about pre-existing conditions also, but then I realized that RD grew up in the Eastern Bloc -- little wonder he was having a panic attack being surrounded by 4 cops. And with good reason, as it turns out.

Not. Acceptable.
JJ | Homepage | 11.16.07 - 8:04 pm | #

$\"Gravatar\"$ RA - Well done, I see you're getting a little flack for it, too. What I want to know is who are these anonymouses who are suddenly showing up everywhere defending the cops? All the blogs that linked to the video got comments from these anons. (I didn't link to the vid, I linked to Dawg.)
JJ | Homepage | 11.16.07 - 8:13 pm | #

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