Vjack,
I don't think it is a PR problem. I really think it is an epistemological challenge. 50% of Americans can't correctly identify that the Earth travels around the Sun and takes one year to do it. The majority of Americans don't understand biological natural selection. The vast majority of Americans can't distinguish between the Declaration of Independence and the U. S. Constitution.
It's not PR, it's education. It's not that Americans don't have the ability to understand the above, it's that they haven't been exposed.
What would it take to fix it? I think a generation. Make American education the highest goal. The best teachers (why do so many potentially great math teachers go into engineering?), the best teaching environments and evidence based evaluation criteria.
My evaluation of the evidence leads to one thing: Change the epistemology or go the way of Greece and Rome.
Tully
America's intolerance of atheists is really astounding when you consider that an atheist has never flown a plane into a building in the name of atheism. Secular humanists haven't been out dragging gay people behind their pickup trucks or burning atheist symbols (are there any?) in front of the homes of black people. Atheists don't go on the evening news and blame natural disasters and the deaths of thousands of people on America's tolerance of abortion or homosexuality. Prominent atheists aren't molesting little boys while preaching "family values". Yet, somehow, atheists are perceived as evil. What's wrong with this picture?
I really want to believe that 300 million Americans can't be that stupid.
The clerics hate us because we represent a threat to their control-freak authority and their ability to con money out of followers. The followers hate us because they are told to, and because we threaten to wake them out of their happy dream. Even a woman scorned is not as likely to sustain fury like a delusional whose areas of denial are challenged. If we are perceived as rational humans and not monsters, the clerics have to entertain the possibility that they are frauds, and the followers have to entertain the idea that their god is adult Santa.
In short, everything that we're about just pisses them off.
I think a lot of the bigotry come from what I call the "don't get it" rule.
The "don't get it" rule means that the more a particular thing appears odd, strange, or foreign to a person, the more acceptable it becomes to reject, loathe, or discriminate against it.
I think that the type of discrimination that atheists suffer is very similar to that suffered by homosexuals. A whole lot of heterosexuals just "don't get" homosexuality and almost feel justified in discriminating against it. Similarly, a whole lot of the population just "don't get" atheism and don't consider much their biased and bigoted attitudes toward it.
I wish the pole had asked one follow-up question to those who did not like Atheists. “Why, specifically?”
I think quite a bit of this disconnected dynamic is a lack of PR on numerous levels. Locally religious institutions and buildings are everywhere. Just look in the phone book. Wider view, I think many people see government as the biggest example of “no religion” which is ridiculous, of course, because theocracy is all over it at every level, local, state and national. Even with the ongoing current religious scandals and centuries of religious atrocities, somehow the equation of religion = morality and lack of religion = horrific world shattering cataclysms persists.
In both situations, religion and government, it seems largely about power and control. The final component of the power trilogy is business. All three have a vested interest in preserving and building their power, control and money. But people who choose not to subscribe to mythology for morality are the most reviled?
I think there is also the mistaken idea, though not often articulated, that anything not specifically religious is therefore “Atheistic” and conscious or not that list of negatives is never ending.
I Just bought the Time magazine touting the 100 Most Influential People in The World. Just a quick glance shows a wide selection of religious, political and business leaders. So far I have not seen the words “Atheist” or “Agnostic” or “Humanist” but I will read each entry to be sure.
The erroneous perception of atheists is the very reason it is so important for all of us to "come out" to whatever extent we can. Dawkins, etal, have their part to play as does vjack, etal. But it is also extremely important that as many people as possible know an actual atheist that is a neighbor, coworker, etc. Progress is made in little bits and every little bit helps.
Preachers can rail about evil atheists and get away with it because no one in the congregation knows any better. Speaking of preachers, has anyone noticed that most of the intolerance in our society comes from religion and almost 100% of the passion behind intolerance comes from the same source? Religion is evil. Perhaps we will outgrow it one day.
In the mean time, I am a white, straight, male having my first opportunity to be a member of the most hated group in America. I love it. I am having fun. I am tickled to death. There is a part of me that hopes we make no progress.
VJack,
Completely off topic but I am responding to your comment about the temporary end to my blogging. I was the victim of an online stalker and the experience scared the living pants off me. My fault: I was naive. I will start a new atheist blog soon...just needed to feel safe again. I am an avid reader of your blog and enjoy it immensely. When I resume blogging, I'll give you a holler. I have some very interesting Jesus pics from my travels in Latin America...lots of baby Jesii with no eyeballs and the usual gore prevalent in Spanish/Latin American representations of Christ. Love ya!
Part 1 of 2
I've never had any problems with the idea that there are atheists in the world. I love and enjoy my atheist friends and treasure our many late-into-the-night conversations about god(s) and religion until the wine bottle was empty and the kids asleep on the floor. I love my atheist friends because they are so intent upon perceiving truth wherever it takes them. I love them because they think about God more than most of my religious friends. I love them because they insist upon believing only in that which they can experience for themselves and if Jesus himself showed up on a wing-ed white horse with a crown and minions they'd politely request some I.D. and maybe even ask his Lordship if he was an alien perhaps.
I've certainly never felt threatened by them.
Many of my fellow Christians believe that the atheist population is much bigger than it is in reality. If you took a poll among Christians asking them what percentage of the population was atheist, I'm betting most would say 30 to 40 percent (or more).
Christians have a tendency to believe they are a persecuted minority. I think it has much to do with the fact that the Christian section of the Bible was written during a time when they actually were a persecuted lion-bitten minority. But that's the problem with bibles -- they don't stay current. The Bible has been a disaster for the Christian religion and I personally believe its worship is not helpful. Many Christians also bring the "persecution" upon themselves by annoying the hell out of everyone else. The Bible demands of its worshippers a kind of proselytizing behavior which in turn results in social awkwardness and isolation from those who do not wish to be converted. So their feelings get hurt and they get into one of those "us against the world" mindsets and react against anyone not like them.
(continued....)
Part 2 of 2
But then, I could be wrong. It's possible that a large percentage of atheists really do want to get rid of all religion. My long-time atheist friends *never* *ever* expressed the kind of ugly comments I read in this forum against Christians. I did not fear atheists prior to the emergence of the recent Dawkins/Hitchens personality cult and prior to my experience with this online atheist community.
I'm sad to say that I do fear you now.
I do so for the same reasons that you fear Christian fundamentalists. If you gain power, you might infringe upon my ability to practice my religion and to teach it to my offspring. And I see that, unlike my reasonable, low-ego'd friends, many of you believe so strongly that your thoughts are The Truth that you are every bit as extreme in your notions of propagating those ideas as the fundamentalists you so despise. I know you don't think of yourselves this way but neither do the fundamentalists. I suppose it's all that guilt/projection stuff -- we always hate in others that which we hate-but-do-not-admit in ourselves.
So I am truly grateful that you are not in the majority.
....but I don't hate you and I have no need to attempt to change your thoughts about God or religion. There are more of us Christians who think this way than you might imagine.
Lurch - you won't see those words (atheist, etc.) in those lists for two reasons. 1. Because it would be identical to saying one is an "Irish/German/Japanese American" which really doesn't amount to anything. 2. Because it is this world that doesn't want to admit that many of its greatest inventors, psychologists, and intellectuals are and were atheists. Atheists certainly weren't the only ones to be successful but if "religious affiliation" was a part of our identities, someone like me would come along and insist on a "religious means test". Can you imagine what kind of results would have been achieved if George Bush had to pass a "religious means test" before the religious right would have endorsed him?
Also, while there may be a repugnacy in recognizing "great financial success", I believe 9 out of 10 of the richest people in the world are either Atheist or Agnostic. I also don't think they are the "capitalists" who exploit "ignorance", but I may be wrong. I am fearful, however, of the "top ten wannabees", many of whom are evil people posing as devout Christians. They may be classified as Atheists only because it has never been their concern or interest. "Money" and "Power" are their gods and if "posing as a Christian" works, just do it. I met a Lawyer in a bar one day. He had a successful practice in his "home town" as the only Mormon lawyer in town. He was nearly plastered. I asked him about his drinking. He didn't seem to care as he confessed, "Even Mormons need lawyers, and it turned out to be a great career move to become a Mormon so I did. Every Mormon gives me his business." I am not picking on Mormons, just the religious who need to be needed so much that they have a lot of "devils in their midst", some of them are even behind their "pulpits".
Well I certainly agree that atheism is unpopular in America but I think "America the Intolerant" is perhaps a little over the top and alarmist.
After all, America in the 20th century the US government has supported (often reactionary) increase rights for women and minorities (the right to vote, equality in the workforce, de-segregation, etc) labor unions and safety regulations (OSHA) to protect working class exploitation. Furthermore I can go to a publicly funded library and read from perhaps hundreds of books covering atheism. I can see Sam Harris or Christopher Hutchins speak at a publicly funded university or on public TV stations (FOX). I do a search for "atheism blog" on google, and I see 575,000 results, mostly blogs authored by American atheists espousing their views.
Furthermore, there are actual cases where the government has made their position of tolerance toward all religions particularly clear for example: removal of prayers from schools, teaching of evolution in public high schools and universities, removal of 10 commandment and other Christian displays and many more examples.
I think it would be extremely difficult to honestly say that the tolerance in America has done anything except increased rather dramatically over the last 100 years. Much more so when contrasted with the achievements of other countries during the same period and an even a more startling contrast when compared with all of human history.
But it can always get better if the critics voice becomes louder and more numerous, so carry on I suppose. I myself am an atheist and passively support the cause.
Bertha and Maude,
You wrote,
"It's possible that a large percentage of atheists really do want to get rid of all religion."
Well, actually, no.
At least myself and the Atheists I know would not by fiat eliminate religion.
But, what bothers us (and should bother you if you value your faith) is your inability to police your own!
When Fallwell et. al. claim that a natural disaster is the result of atheism, when T.V. evangelism states that "Atheism leads to immorality." And when preachers promote "abstinence only" education when the evidence shows that it causes more human pain than good.
Where are the liberal Christians condemning them? They are not there.
Your lack of condemnation is implicit approval.
Now, who should fear persecution?
There is a vast difference between wanting to "get rid of all religion" and hoping that religious believers will gradually come to their senses. A could imagine a form of religion void of any political power that was retained simply to provide comfort as sort of a benign delusion.
As for whether or not there is such a thing as a benign delusion, that discussion would take more space than I have here.
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