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Peace! Winter Patriot. Money is no substitute for brains, and integrity, and guts, and honour.
"We don't have the money, so we've got to think."
-Lord Rutherford.
MoveOn demonstrated its unfitness to speak for its original grassroots members when it helped the "news media" destroy Howard Dean's tidal wave of growing support.
MoveOn used its original grassroots members as a trojan horse.
MoveOn is bogus.
The Sea Dreamer, I've been noticing some good comments from you around the internet. Nice work!
MoveOn seemed awfully eager to reduce the field of Dems to the 'group of 9' in 2004. Where did that come from if not straight from the DNC?
As I see it...
MoveOn = DLC
and
When Dean took Chair at DNC, the conversion was complete. The DNC no longer was an alternative to the DLC. They became the same thing with two different fronts. The DNC to lasso the "liberals" and "progressives" and the DLC to lasso the "conservatives" and hawks.
Parry says:
"Presumably, in green-lighting this ad (Freedom Watch's ad), the Times editors feared a hostile right-wing reaction if they had said no or demanded softer language."
True, but let's get specific on what the rightwing is: a minority, but of millionaires and billionaires intent on misleading the American people, not a group of 50% of Americans. They have the money to "appear" larger than they are. And they do.
It should read: "Presumably, in green-lighting this ad, the Times editors feared a hostile BILLIONAIRE reaction if they had said no or demanded softer language."
MoveOn is made up of LOTS of REAL people, like ME. Freedom's watch is made up of a handful of ex-Bush aides who are millionaires and billionaires. But they carry the same weight or MORE in the media.
They're called the "rightwing", this extreme minority of people who have way more money than we do...
...and their BetrayUs ad proved invaluable in outing Democrats who voted to rebuke free speech, and the entire GOP for rebuking free speech, AND exposing how congress is wasting our time on legislation rebuking free speech. I think it was worthwhile for that, do you? It made me think we need to get rid of the entire congress. It helped expose that there's less difference between the Democrats and Republicans than a lot of people used to think.
On the other hand, the controversy over the ad netted MoveOn almost a million dollars in contributions from liberals. So on a conventional return-on-investment scale, the MoveOn ad was very cost-effective. I know that if I got an 8 times sell-through on my businesses' advertising I'd be pretty damned happy.
Badtux says
On the other hand, the controversy over the ad netted MoveOn almost a million dollars in contributions from liberals.And what are they gonna do with their million dollars? Buy more advertising on mainstream media?
Dan says
[the] ad proved invaluable in outing Democrats who voted to rebuke free speech, and the entire GOP for rebuking free speech, AND exposing how congress is wasting our time on legislation rebuking free speech.um ... no. How much of this didn't we already know? How much of this didn't we already know six years ago?
I think it was worthwhile for that, do you?
How much of this don't we know yet?
Never mind.
MoveOn has long been criticized for having sold out to mainstream Democracy. The decision to give over the money is just another sign of their allegiance to the mainstream. MoveOn.org is not radical. They're not even reformers any more -- if in fact they ever were. They're just ass kissers. Democratic senators condemn what MoveOn is doing, so MoveOn quits doing it. What could be more natural (or more nauseating) than that? And I'm REAL TIRED of guys like Parry, who want me to believe that mainstream Democrats are afraid of the Republican attack dogs -- though if all Democratic voters were as spineless as MoveOn.org, the line that Democrats are afraid of the Republicans would make more sense.
How dare you call a lying, lapdog, poodle, cheney/bu$$h yes man, who is inspired to build his political resume so he can one day sit in the oval office - a LIAR for flagrantly bending the truth about successes in the Iraq War. Hitler's Germany would never permit his military to be criticized,.. why should the cheney/bu$$h fascist America allow it either ?
---
The ad is pretty tough, and the pun on the general's name is pretty witless. You could argue that since the verb betray and the noun traitor have the same root, the ad is accusing the head of American forces in Iraq of treason. The ad can also be interpreted — more plausibly if you consider the rest of the text — merely as questioning the general's honesty, not his patriotism. But whatever your interpretation of the ad, all the gasping for air and waving of scented handkerchiefs among the war's most enthusiastic supporters is pretty comical.
It's all phony, of course. The war's backers are obviously delighted to have this ad from which they can make an issue. They wouldn't trade it for a week in Anbar province (a formerly troubled area of Iraq that is now, thanks to us, an Eden of peace and tranquillity where barely a car bomb disturbs the perfumed silence — or so they say).
http://www.time.com/time/nation/...00.html?
cnn=yes
They should have used Fallon's quote about the little general and they should have put the ad in small town papers. Too many people have given up on the NYT and people in NYC don't need convincing.
Big Dan,
You will notice I didn't say anything about who joined or joins MoveOn.org, eh?
I joined them early on. Then I quit.
I quit because of what I saw, what I described above.
If you think that MoveOn.org represents the views that you share in these comments threads, I have to say that your optimism transcends positivity and enters the realm of surreality.
The only Big Dan View that MoveOn.org seems to share is the one that is Democrat-partisan.
Also to Big Dan,
I think you seriously under-estimate the number of "right-wing" or "conservative" people in the USA.
But maybe my views of "right-wing" and "conservative" are different from yours, and that's why I see your statement as reflecting an under-estimate.
I think that most Americans shift with the politicians' (hot) winds. Actually, it looks to me like most Americans follow the broken wind scent to the voting booth.
The number of people who self-identify as "conservative" or "right-wing" is well beyond the number of people who are millionaires or otherwise might be styled as "rich."
In the current America, I would imagine at least half of America would consider themselves EITHER "conservative" or "right-wing" if you worded the self-description options accurately.
As usual (IMO), Jimmy Montague tells the truth of the story!
Thank you for that handsome compliment, Wendigo. Not being 'over there', I don't have the grasp of detail that you, and Big Dan, and WP and the others have, and I can't really join in the hurly-burly. So I just say what I think, and move-on. Oops!
Well, I went to the protest yesterday, I'm uploading the videos now. There were NO pro-war people there...ZERO! And wait until you see the videos of how many people were there.
All I know, is MoveOn got me and my wife free tickets and a bus ride to go to the protest, and I think that's a good thing.
There are things I disagree with, with MoveOn, but the people on the bus were people I know, all local. There were no "big wigs" at any time. And MoveOn is getting people to protests.
Is that bad?
And NOTHING said "MoveOn" anywhere. There were just us "locals" on the bus, people I know. No one talked about MoveOn at all. There's no DLC "conspiracy" from what I saw.
HERE'S THE FIRST VIDEO!!!!!!!!!!
YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U...h?
v=UcxUG02h21E
Here's a little background: It's video from my digital camera, and I was right in the middle of this huge crowd, it was very powerful. I was walking and spinning around 360 degrees while I was taking this video. It was actually not easy!!!
We met Reverend Yearwood and I got pictures of my wife giving him a bottle of water. He said he was thirsty, so I got a picture of my wife giving him a bottle of water, he posed for it, he was a really, really nice guy! And he was one of the speakers.
Here's #2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q...h?
v=Q4iexQ3CwjA
Good Work, Big Dan! Isn't it energizing to be a part of the protest on the ground?
Thanks for sharing with those of us who couldn't be there.
.
#3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T...h?
v=TSjWz8kz8hU
#4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g...h?
v=guvaMpnlBxg
#5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3...h?v=3Ty3fxt-
_dw
#6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q...h?
v=qR7v5mBkfRc
great work Big Dan!!
on another note, this was interesting
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/
...ies_in_pho.html
the plane was already preparing to depart when Carol Anne Gotbaum, who was traveling alone, arrived at the gate.
She was rebooked on the next flight, but "she became extremely irate, apparently running up and down the gate area,"
[whoa - that might upset security a bit, but]
may have strangled herself while struggling to free herself from the cuffs.
[now this, i find hard to envision]
She has three very small children.
[thats so sad - man. How could someone strangle from handcuffs? did someone kill her because she wouldn't shut up? just wondering...]
I gots lots more!
#7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-...h?v=-
X2wSPaNPww
#8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B...h?
v=Bme_qgmUcFE
#9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w...h?
v=wuExBYBBNkU
My ID on youtube is maplespak...it's a long story...
Anyone know where I can download free AVI editting software???
They said it was the biggest, most enthusiastic protest so far in DC...
With the Biggest, most Enthusiastic DAN!
What do you think of these videos so far?
#10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y...h?
v=Y8M0KblNDXg
They are Wonderful! We have to be our own media ... otherwise they will continue to claim "tens of thousands" when it looked more like [at least] half a million when I was there. The cabbies I talked to agreed.
When were you there?
We Are The Ones We've Been Waiting For:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l...h?
v=l7KHUbuhgpQ
I'm the one I wuz waiting for???
It seemed small at first, then it grew and grew and grew and grew, until we were packed in like sardines! troopsoutnow had a huge presence there, and another huge presence there was this newspaper called "The Militant", I've seen it before, my friend subscribes to it. And Code Pink was there. At one point in the march, I saw Media Benjamin running past us on the side, and I said to my wife who's a big fan of hers, "Hey! That's Media Benjamin!" And we caught up to her and I got a picture of her with my wife, I'll post it later. And Media Benjamin said "Thanks".
#11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T...h?
v=T8lGUzeYTro
#12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d...h?
v=dlZCeBQ7qQc
I was there Sept. '05 - we posted a link at bradblog at the time to the pictures. I'll see if I can find a current [working] link.
I met Cindy Sheehan when I was there, but didn't see Medea.
How did you post the pictures? I have lots of pictures, hundreds of them.
#13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3...h?
v=30fC5JFkWgc
#14 (my favorite! listen how LOUD!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V...h?v=Vjjoq1C-
WP4
I didn't - jpentz posted them at her website, but I'm not sure where they are now. I looked through the links there ... at the link below, there's one picture of the crowd. For the entire day [9 a.m. until we left around 6 p.m.] the everywhere you looked for as far as you could see, the streets were packed to the gills.
http://www.reallynews.com/archiv.../
rnarchives.htm
Oh yeah, BD! That's excellent. How long did you march?
Big Dan - maybe you should start a blogspot for your pictures???
Big Dan - if you post this link:
http://www.youtube.com/profile_v...r=maplespak&
p=r
It shows all your videos on one page, eh?
OK, thanks. Will it keep updating the new ones? This is the first time I posted anything to youtube...I'm learning!
Don't know about continuous updating ... have to give it a try.
BD - that link updates, now there are 16. Was 15.
Big Dan and the wife are back from the Washington DC protest ? That is a relief,.. I thought the next time we heard from them it would be a postcard from Gitmo. 
Heading over to youtube to see the photos now.
Welcome back you subversives.
Hey Big Dan, where's the news coverage on that protest march? I can't find anything, can you? If so, post links please.
They were selling shirts that said, "Don't tase me!".
My friend said he checked Yahoo and MSNBC and there was nothing about it.
There will be 22 videos (a 23rd one I have to edit, is there any free editting software???).
And I have hundreds of digital photo's.
BD - here's a link for free editing software ... I don't know anything about it though.
http://www.newfreedownloads.com/...avi-
editor.html
Anybody else here have info on reputable free software?
So, whaddya tink about da videos??? I wuz in DC all ze veek...actually one day, only...
It was AWESOME! The videos actually don't do it justice. I need to get a really good camera or video recorder. They were still ok, though.
Another:
http://www.topshareware.com/
Would be great filming from a Zepplin, wouldn't it?
I just posted that updating link on Brad Blog. Post these videos around anywhere you go, if you can!
Kucinich 'seriously thinking' about forcing vote on Cheney impeachment Nick Juliano
http://rawstory.com//news/2007/
K..._vote_0928.html
Rep. Dennis Kucinich says he is so concerned about what he sees as the Bush administration's push for a war with Iran that he is considering using a parliamentary measure to force the House of Representatives to vote on impeaching Vice President Dick Cheney.
"We're preparing for another war, and they're going to destroy America," the Ohio Democrat said Thursday on the Ed Schultz show. "We have a government in place right now that has to be challenged. I'm seriously thinking about calling a privileged resolution on impeachment of the vice president and forcing a vote on the floor of the House."
**MORE**
btw...I posted my youtube links on C&L, Americablog, and HuffPo and saw NO articles on the huge march I was at yesterday.
Probably DailyKOS has nothing, either, but I never go there.
What do they think, we don't notice stuff like that???
Speaking of Kucinich, he was the ONLY PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE who had a stand at the protest yesterday.
BD,
One way to get your photos out there is to use Photo Bucket http://photobucket.com/?link=topmenu
It is free and you can build a photo album there. It creates links to each picture which you can post in comments etc so people can see the picture.
You can put videos there too, but it is limited to only 1 gig max - about 3 minutes.
There is a pro version which offers a few frills and more storage.
Thanks, Kira.
Gravel did not have a stand there, only Dennis Kucinich.
The stands I can remember were: Dennis Kucinich, troopsoutnow, code pink, for some reason this newspaper "The Militant" had several stands all over the place (my friend subscribes to this socialist newspaper), Operation Democracy which was us (it's a part of MoveOn, but we weren't selling anything or giving anything away), The GREEN PARTY, .... I'll post if I remember any others.
Thanks, BB2.
I like Kucinich a whole lot, but disagree with him on a couple of issues. I took the online candidate/issues "test" WP posted several weeks ago & matched up with Kucinich 80%. He was the "match" for me according to that website.
NJT - re: Carol Anne Gotbaum who was strangled to death trying to get out of her handcuffs -
HOW? I'd love to see pix of that. If her hands were cuffed behind her back there is no way to get near your neck unless your shoulders are dislocated.
I'd say this needs to be investigated.
...unless your arms at your shoulders are dislocated.
She choked herself to death...when she attacked the cops' hand with her neck!!!
That must be it, BD! Hadn't thought about that angle 
BD, thanks for all those video clips. The energy and chants reminded me of the Kport Rally and March, and how fun it was for people to come together, rally, march and do something strong with a loud message.
Kucinich was also there with us and was very powerful as a speaker. I decided to support him at the rally.
The NYT never mentioned the 4,000 that made such a splash; they even ignored Kucinich in their column that day about where candidates were spending their vacation. There he was in Kennbunkport, at a huge rally, and not one word about it!
I guess they think that numbers alone don't count. Even with hundreds arrested in DC two weeks ago, they barely covered it. I guess we protestors are just 'focus group protestors' so we don't count.
You are right--where are the other candidates that are against the war? Only Dennis shows up. But how can Hilary even show her face after that vote of Lieberman's to pave the way for war with Iran?
It's time to have war posters that focus on her war enabling. She should not be getting away with this. We can't afford to have a weak Democratic candidate for President who's afraid to go against the war profiteer Party.
Laurie,
That's because we are now confined to "frees speech" zones which have the magical attribute of being invisible to the corporate mainstream press!
.
But, that's not the only reason they "fail" to report on our efforts!!! They go out of their way to NOT report on anything that goes against the current regime.
They are bought & paid for by the Ministry of Propaganda.
"Rep. Dennis Kucinich says he is so concerned about what he sees as the Bush administration's push for a war with Iran that he is considering using a parliamentary measure to force the House of Representatives to vote on impeaching Vice President Dick Cheney."
Old Denny could have "considered using a parliamentary measure" back when he first introduced his papers.
This is what Mike Gravel told him to do.
And it was SEVERAL MONTHS AGO.
It's all theatre. Even with Kucinich.
"I like Kucinich a whole lot, but disagree with him on a couple of issues. I took the online candidate/issues "test" WP posted several weeks ago & matched up with Kucinich 80%. He was the "match" for me according to that website."
That was the point of the website, to get support for Kucinich.
If you like Dennis Kucinich's views, then you should support Mike Gravel, who is Kucinich's equal on the views, but is Kucinich's superior on strategy, tactics and effectiveness.
Screw MoveOn and their centerist candidates who will only bring us more of the same.
Screw the entire Democratic Party since it is simply the other wing of the National WarParty (Our Oil Under Their Sand is their motto) unless you are positive you aren't being sold out. So to me only those that call for impeachment or are members of Out of Iraq Caucus deserve consideration.
Strike/Boycott 08!
http://www.counterpunch.org/
gard...er09292007.html
The problem is, all these news outlets are controlled by the CFR, even Disney !
Just like 9-11....everyone should not fly United or American Airlines until a clear investigation to that dreadful day is answered....they're all guilty ! This goes for the alphabet news companies too ! They all new of the attacks before the Towers came down ! WAKE-UP!!!!!!! Not one nickle of my money goes to any of them; that's a promise !
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