Wow. I love that a guy who drinks two cups of kool-aid before he even rolls out of bed in the morning just tried to argue that Warren Kinsella has bias.
Warren is someone who has eaten, slept and breathed this business for more years than Cherniak has been downing solid foods. Warren has proven himself to be a maverick on every issue imaginable and is clearly nobody's pawn. To try and paint this guy as a bag-man for the oil industry is so low, I think its even beneath Cherniak.
People like Warren Kinsella are strategists more than they are Partisans. They see strategies as "winners" and "losers" as opposed to "Liberal" or "Conservative". This is precisely why people like Kinsella last much, much longer in business than the Cherniak's of the world ever will.
Apparently your commentary (which I heartily support, IMHO) struck a cord with Cherniak. Fact is, Warren, he's suggesting your hypocritical without actually coming out and saying it. My thoughts are that this is your blog and the last time I looked, blogs were about stating one's personal opinion. That you have professional client's who might oppose your personal opinion is completely irrelevant to the whole point of having a blog. When I read postings like what Cherniak just posted, his youth and inexperience coming shining through, doesn't it?
Key flaw in Cherniak's argument is this line: "...the positive arguments, such as the decrease in other taxes."
Uh, does Jason truly believe that other taxes will be reduced when the carbon tax is introduced? Good luck selling that one to the electorate.
This carbon tax idea and Dion's leadership has been a total disaster. I wish Liberals would call an election, take their hits and come back with a more credible leader who can offer legitimate opposition.
I see no problem with your client list. You are talking common sense and the fact your blog isn't blindly partisan is very refreshing.
I think Jason has a lot of talent and a good blog for a Liberal, having said that his bias and affiliation with Dion is obvious and it is unfortunate that he is making himself look silly supporting this "carbon tax" policy at a time of record oil prices and an economic recession in various parts of the country.
Dion should take your advice on this issue and also the Cadman affair.
Here's a hint for Jason: Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.
Also: When climbing a large tree, be careful not to whack your head on the large hornets nest Jason.
Good luck with that job search thing.
Much as I am loath to polish Mr. Kinsella's, er, well, whatever one polishes of his when commenting in favour of him, I gotta say that Cherniak has SO missed the mark on this one.
and just like that... WHACK!
off the blogroll..
good move. he's a douche.
tax "shit"
Game, set & match, Jason.
Pick up your "racket" and go home. Sleep it off. Come back when you feel better.
Man, you don't mess around big W. He is aready gone from your blogroll.
wow, this added some spice to my day. Jason's getting killed by all the posters here and on his site. I think he did go over the line a bit, not because he's necessarily off base (if he pointed the same out for someone who's a Tory there woudldn't be so much outrage: a similare tactic might have been used in the Kinsella playbook before), but from what I've seen Warren's been pretty nice to the guy and making good comments about him here and there, which has no doubt been helpful. That being said, you have to think before you speak. He's still young, as am I, so we make mistakes now and then. Don't school him too much, Warren. You can't deny, though, for better or for worse, he really struck a chord.
Funny. And here I thought Jason was your protege. He didn't learn that "shoot the messenger" tactic from you, did he?
As a Greenie, I know that selling a tax-shift is a tough sell. The Grits all need to be fully versed on it and that includes spelling shift with an "f" in it. Sheesh! Let's stay off the personal attacks and keep to discussing fecal policy -- er, fiscal policy.
Jason, jason, jason....oh young Jedi.....more to learn you have....
Of course lost in almost all this Jason bashing and Warren bashing is the fact that the point was lost by most of the commenters on both blogs Warren.
"I'm not saying no to a carbon tax. I'm saying no to a carbon tax now."
You're a strategist. I believe the intent was to say this is bad strategy and let's debate Carbon tax later. Of course, that seems to be lost on Jason as well.
Mind you, I don't have a degree, let alone a law degree, so maybe I read too much into things I have no knowledge of.
Gandalf lays wood on Frodo.
Elve; Are you suggesting that the Tax shit could solve the fecal imbalance?
I dunno... clearly a dumb move in my opinion, but I also don't think he went over any lines. Jason's bit has always been analysis of media and their motivations. His posting was of legitimate subject matter for his blog. It was also insensitive and silly to do without first dropping WK at least a heads-up.
I think he made a mistake as a human being towards someone that he probably ought to show more respect, but as a blogger he made decent and relevant post.
It looks like Cherniak was trying to figure out why Kinsella didn't support a carbon tax. Instead of closely reading the whole post, he tried to read Warren's mind and "found" a bias to explain the mystery. He should have just read the last line of the post.
But in the end, doesn't it seem like an over-reaction by Warren? He is (like it or not) an elder statesman in liberal circles (no offense - honest!) Anyway, its a shame that good politics and good policy rarely coincide.
Oh Jason...sigh...
This makes as much sense as Flaherty going after McGuinty earlier this spring. Why pick a fight you're going to lose?
Dion is becoming a political martyr for academics everywhere.
The debate, as I see it, isn't about the merits of such a policy. It's about the shocking political idiocy of introducing it right now.
The time for preempting the economic and environmental catastrophes of the near future has passed, and the need for radical action to solve them has not yet been accepted by the public.
The issues affecting Canadian voters today (like right now) are economic in nature; the real or perceived manufacturing crisis, declining economic growth, shrinking budget surpluses, oil prices, and above all soaring GAS PRICES.
The time for this proposal was ten years ago or five to ten years in the future.
The Liberals should call this "The Kevorkian Tax"
See, Dion's plan is so sneaky, he is really playing to his strength, working with teeny tiny crowds. His ultimate goal is to travel to voters backyards while they sit their two week holiday in the sun staring at their fence, as they can't afford the gas to go to the lake. Brilliant move designed to take advantage of his pithy and direct speaking style, he will meet tons of interested voters.
May 19: Cherniak posts a lengthy thesis on why "We need an honest debate about carbon."
May 22: Cherniak posts a malicious, half-baked, drive-by-smear on someone who has put forth a thoughtful and reasonable critique about carbon.
The word hypocrite is overused these days, but I can't think of a more fitting recipient of the word than Jason Cherniak.
I have looked at the list of Warren Kinsella and for every client that may oppose a carbon tax there seemed to be another that would benefit from it.
While I oppose Warren Kinsella view about the carbon tax, I understand his preoccupation. Drafting a platform on implementing a new tax isn't exactly an easy sell and Dion really doesn't have a proven track record of simplifying his points so that the average joe understand what is getting at.
I am political neophyte and as such I recognize that the next federal election, I will probably be doing the same thing as I have done in the last two federal election which is work the phones as opposed to the glamorous work of the war room.
And my prior experience as telephone canvasser is that while raising tax is not a hard sell it is not unsurmountable when you take the time to discuss the alternatives to the general public. And the Harper government is making real easy to do so especially with Transport Canada ruling on the electric car.
People do want polluters to pay jusst like people want universal health care. However to sell it you need a leader that demonstrates no fear in facing an angry mob. And I simply don't see it with Dion so ...
yeah ... maybe Kinsella is right that it's not the right time for the carbon tax. The right time would be when David McGuinty is the leader of the federal Liberal party.
But to go back to the initial point, yeah it seemed pretty childish of Cherniak to point out Kinsella's client list. Duh ... know your audience. People that go on warrenkinsella blog usually have a pretty good idea of his client's list. And this guy is the driving force behind the liberal bloggers.
Wow. We are really in trouble for the next election.
Warren, I have a strong sense of justice, and what Jason did wasn't right. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on the issues of the day. If we all agreed, life would be very boring, wouldn't it?
But to attack your company's clients and insinuate that you may be acting unethically, that was way out of line. For if there is one thing Canadians know about Kinsella, it's that you always speak your mind and say exactly what you think -- consequences be damned.
$1.30 a litre gas is all the "carbon tax" we need. The Liberals could pull a 1981 comeback on the gas price issue if they played it right. How much extra federal revenue has been generated by the near-doubling of gas prices?
Also asked of Jason:
If two Liberals fight in the political wilderness, does a tree land on either or both of them?
By "tax shift" I wonder if Jason has in mind getting rid of the GST ?
It has been tried before and was a winning plank in a winning platform.
Jason needs a filter on his blogs instead of his comments. Take 24 hours to think about every post.
The Liberals should call this "The Kevorkian Tax"
Not so much Green as Soylent Green, then?
Werner...hahahah...that's rich.
Warren; I say mercy for this kid, Cherniak. He just gets over excited, full of himself, believing his own bullshit. My guess is that you are angry about the loyalty issue. I can understand that. But, again, Jason is not much more than a kid, one who is experiencing some success and maybe forgetting some basics once in awhile. I say we send Stratucci to talk with him, but nothing to rough, ok?
The 'carbon tax' is a desperate measure by Dion to rescue his failed leadership of and within the Liberal party. He intends to venture out amongst Canadians to 'sell' his well-meaning ideas, but if Canadians don't 'buy' in, that will finish off Dion. However if Canadians enthusiastically support him and his personal polling numbers show a bump, his Liberal colleagues and opponents within the party will have to fall in behind him.
Now we must wait until June to see the full plan, and how he intends to manoevre it within an election that most certainly must occur by November ... and perchance ride back to power with Obama on November 4th ..?!
(Hey Warren ... what are the pros and cons of jigging the next Canadian election around November 4th..??)
Jason is not a kid. He is a full grown adult who made his own decision to attack Warren. Certainly, if Jason thinks individuals are against the carbon tax based on who their clients are thats fine but to personally single out Warren was crossing the line. I don't know Warren personally but given his time in politics, I imagine his first thoughts upon hearing the plan was calculating the political affect and not worrying about current or past clients.
Hey, Jason, now that we are including a few thousand people on the conversation, perhaps you can tell me why - when you were lobbying people at my firm and elsewhere to get me to hire you - you weren't so very preoccupied with client lists. Your outrage is selective, I'd say.
Maybe the term "gotcha" moment is overused in politics, but man I've got to say, that has "gotcha" written all over it. If Cherniak had any sense at all, he should be supremely embarrassed.
Warren , as usual , is correct . I could scarce imagine the progressive reaction by the MSM if the cons had floated this carbon neutral -revenue yee -haw idiocy ...
Geez.
In his latest post entitled "Keep it civil Warren" Jason states in the comments:
"I'm susprised that a few of you can turn a smear by Warren into something I did wrong. Whatever you think of my original post on this subject, he's clearly gone over the edge with this particular reaction."
Sheesh...this from the guy who doesn't think it's in poor taste for him to write posts calling the Prime Minister an asshole.
What he doesn't seem to get is that he has called Warren's ethics into question. If someone did that to me I'd fight back with every bone in my body. Looks like he can dish it out but when the tables are turned, he wants to play the victim.
I knew as soon as I saw this catfight that Kate was going to endorse Jason. It says something about her predictability that I was able to know that. It also says something about WK's too, that he'd respond to it.
Is this like the time BJ and Hockeye pretended they were fighting and it was supposed to be a birthday present for Major Burns?? Either way its alot of fun to listen to.
Pot, meet kettle. No sympathy one way or the other.
On the merits of the actual issue, I'm with Kinsella -- I think the carbon tax isn't something to fight an election on.
Anyone who reads this blog regularly knows that, whatever flaws WK may have, dishonesty isn't one of them. However, while I certainly accept Warren's assertion that his carbon tax views have nothing to do with his company's client list, I'm not sure I understand the reaction of many of the posts on this issue. Specifically, why would it be inherently unethical for a lobbyist or consultant to take positions on his blog that are beneficial to his clients' interests? Maybe there's a "blogger's code" of which I'm unaware, but I don't recall seeing anything on Warren's site where he swore only to put forward his personal views. During the Ontario provincial election, when Warren posted photos of John Tory with Randy Hillier or videos in which Tory looked like a buffoon, was he doing so because of his personal views or because he was working for the Premier? If he says it was the former, I'm going to take him at his word. For my part, I didn't really care either way (because it was entertaining and provided live-time insight about a political campaign), but I certainly was operating under the impression that someone in his position could leverage off the popularity of his blog to further the goals of his client. I don't find that unethical; actually, I think it would be pretty smart. I guess I'm either very naive or extremely cynical and not smart enough to figure out which.
Jason is still waiting for that call to become a Real Life Strategist or a Pundit on the Tee Vee.
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